C'mon Cat, I'm not arguing with you. I agree with your opinion that Mo is one of the most talented offensive big men in the game today. If you read my post, I don't have any problem with Mo's offense. I just want him to be more productive and grab more rebounds and I think that he can be more productive coming off the bench. It doesn't mean his minutes will be limited. He could actually get more minutes and be fresh towards the end game. Look at Mobley, no question he's a starter on any other ball club and he's one of the most talented 2 guards in the league but he's more productive coming off the bench and he get's more minutes than our starter shandon. In what I've seen in the past, starters who come from the bench become more productive because they become more aggressive and more hungry to start and prove something. Look at Rodney Rogers, he's a starter with the Clips and he didn't do much but his the 6th man with the Suns and he's very productive averaging career bests in all aspects of his game. Look at Kevin Willis who used to be a starter for the Warriors and Atlanta before being a productive 6th man in Houston. It's not that I'm saying bench Mo. I just want what's best for the team. C'mon man I believe that all of us Rockets fans agree on one thing and that's winning. ------------------ President of the Sir Charles Barkley Fan Club
Hey Cat, can I join your fan club too? ------------------ President of the Sir Charles Barkley Fan Club
Cat, nothing personal, and i DO have hope that Mo will come around, but the stats don´t lie: MO: 11.2 points 3.8 reb fga 10.2 pct 48.9 min 27.7 Fortson: 16.3 points 16.7 reb fga 8.3 pct 58.0 min 33.8 Now WHO would you like to have on the Rockets? And don´t tell me about Mo´s incredibly well rounded offensive game when Fortson is scoring more than he is! I don´t care if it´s a jumper or a putback, the points ARE being scored! And i really hope you don´t give me that line about the Warriors field goal being so bad that it helps Fortson increase his reb... ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true" [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited November 16, 2000).]
Fortson was averaging 5 offensive boards a game while shooting 58% from the field. He was obviously grabbing boards off his teammates' poor shooting. Golden State is only shooting 41% as a team. That said, the MAN was pulling down 11.5 defensive boards before he went down with a sore right foot. The same right foot he broke last year and missed 25 games as a result. Jayson Williams could grab boards too, but I don't think anyone is calling for him to sign with the Rockets. Hopefully, Fortson will rebound from his foot trouble. Regardless of whether or not Mo comes around on the boards, the team needs to rebound better, and Mo needs to contribute more offensively. If he can force the opposing 4 to play defense, pick up fouls, etc., he'll be doing his job. ------------------ "We end up with Francis/Mobley isolations very often. More often, I'd say, then other teams." -- jamcracker [This message has been edited by Tb-Cain (edited November 16, 2000).]
Stats are just that- stats. Those are what you go by for fantasy leagues, but not a real team. You go by skill. Mo's offensive game opens up so much for the rest of the team. For example, his outside shooting that can open up the lane and his isolation ability are just a couple of things that do not show up on the stat-sheet. You also have to look at how a player will fit into your offensive scheme and your team. And, long-term the Rockets need an offensive weapon from the low-post to be championship material. You have to have some kind of post threat to go to when the shots aren't dropping for the guards. Now imagine if, 2 years from now, it's the 4th quarter of Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals, and the Rockets have just let off 10 straight points to the Lakers to make it a tie game. Steve and Cat are really struggling, and the Lakers have turned up the D. You need a basket. Where's the best place to get one when everything is going against you? Down low. It's in cases like this that the way those stats are accumulated do matter. I personally would be awfully scared if I were the Rockets and these big time post weapons were Fortson and Cato. Then what do you do? Well, you put Mo in there for Fortson, and IMO it seems much much better. Stats don't tell the whole story. There's no doubt whatsoever I'd rather have Mo than Fortson. None. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I would rather have a legit scoring threat (rashard) and Forston at the 4. Funny how everyone likes to point out that the championship teams were known for their weak rebounding. That may be the case, but back then, we simply had an UNSTOPPABLE offensive weapon: The Dream. Say what you want about our offense, but it is far from unstoppable, and it will REMAIN that way. Why? Suppose Mo, Cuttino and Francis develop all their upside. They would STILL have to face some of the best defenders in the game, and thus, would still remain being far from unstoppable. Hakeem, on the other hand, couldn´t be contained by ANYONE, like, say Shaq cannot now, though obviously with the advantage going to Dream. That DID compensate for our weak rebounding. It could even be said that Hakeem´s high fg% also weakened our rebounding stats, since everyone KNEW that the Dream Shake was coming and it STILL didn´t make any difference at all, since it couldn´t be defended. We don´t have that kind of offensive weapon. I second the thoughts of a poster that said that everyone championship team NEEDS a definite go-to sure-fire weapon. Only teamwork does not suffice. We WON´T have that kind of offensive potential. rebounding IS needed. To compare the current team with the championship is a flawed argument, IHMO. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
The only way Fortson would be a good fit on this team is if Hakeem were still the focus of the offense and he wasn't retiring soon. With this team's makeup, it's more important to have another very good offensive threat for when the guards are not getting it done. We haven't lost a game yet because Mo didn't get 2 or 3 more rebounds, or even 5 or 6 more. If Fortson is such an effective player, why hasn't he won anywhere? ------------------
Rashard would be nice, but he and Fortson still are not the answer. We need a legit post threat, which Rashard is not. Fortson definitely can't be. Mo IMO definitely can. It's for that reason I am very excited about his potential with this team. No one will be like Dream. But Mo is an extremely effective post threat who can get you those baskets when things aren't going for your guards. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
That's simple. He played for Denver, Boston, and now for the Warriors... ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
About Mo's rebounding. I'm afraid he WON'T improve on his rebounding AT ALL unless he is properly coached. It's not about desire. I agree that he IS trying. However, his positioning just flat out STINKS. He hasn't got a CLUE where the ball will bounce to. Great rebounders like the Chuckster and Rodman were ALL about positioning and knowing which direction the ball will head to as soon as the shot is made. I wonder if the Round Mound of Rebound would bother teaching Mo a few tricks... sounds like a plan to me. if he doesn't have the instincs, and he does NOT have them, a few tips might be helpful. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true" [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited November 16, 2000).]
Wow, I'm surprised no one has brought up has poorly Shandon and Walt started last year, compared to how they finished. Oh, wow, I guess I just did. My basic point is, perhaps with this team/offense more than others, it takes time to learn each other. When to help, when to cheat out on defense, when to expect help, where to set the pick and roll to. Even with our "star" Francis, he goes through periods where he just looks lost in running the offense, then other times like a 10 year veteran of the offense. Francis, Mobley, and Mo are still learning when and where they want the ball, and where the rest of the team should be when they have it. That's why his scoring is sporadic. As far as his boards, perhaps there's a good statistic for this. Any stat guru, would it be possible to find out the opposing PF's average rebounds per game? The only guy I recall who really got double digit boards on him was KG, and only 2 were offensive, neither oh which while Mo was playing. I recall several times the first games that Mo stopped his man from getting an offensive board and letting someone like Walt get "credit" for the board, rather than risk letting his man get the ball rather than him. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
Thanos: I agree. I believe that our coaching staff WILL help Mo out. WE got a good coaching staff and people like Mr. Mean or even Hakeem or Cd can help MO out a lil bit. Nike: Goood point. Someone will have to look that up. Maybe Mo is just trying to stop HIS man from getting the boards, instead of trying to get the boards himself. And with the way our guards rebound, it might actually be a good idea? ------------------ president of the dan langhi fan club. [This message has been edited by alaskansnowman (edited November 16, 2000).]
wat tha? this thread sat on 3 posts for like a day or two....... o well, look mo can take his time gettin used to tha offense. im fine w/ that. but this is the story of his entire career : NO REBOUNDS. I dont neccesarily need double digits, if he could be half of the playa KG is, then this thread would not be here, but i want a decent effort. i mean the guy really has no desire to rebound, u can see it in his on court body language. if hes gonna improve, great. but i still cant think bout that unless he at least shows signs of improvent in his work ethic on the boards. ------------------ Lookin at a 75 year old man in a thong: NASTY Lookin at Shaq hit free throws: "O SH**!"
That is exactly what I think may be happening. Still, I am dissappointed in his production, but it is possible for him to turn it around like Shandy did. If it takes him as long as it took the Wizard did though, I don't know if he'll be of much value to the Rockets. I know I wouldn't pay him big money for 20 good games. ------------------ There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, lies, and heypeeisms. -DrofDunkingDonuts
This is just silly. How anybody could argue with the statement that we need more than 3 rebounds a game from the power forward spot is ridiculous. It's great that Mo's such a great offensive player, but it's not like we're hurting for people to give shots to. On a team, each player has to carry his share of the load. The guards are having to do way more than their fair share if they have to compensate for their power forward's lackluster board work night in, night out. They do everything else already. Mo's 6'9, 260 lbs., and athletic. There's no reason he shouldn't be able to get in there and grab his 8 RPG the Rocks need him to do. In short, the Rockets need mo from mo. The fact that team RPG and wins do not necessarily correlate is not a new correlation. As has been pointed out before, it's because teams that shoot a lower % have more chances at offensive rebounds. Still, you can look at def rebounds. Really, you can look at any stat you want, and they all point to the simple conclusion that Mo's rebounding really, really SUCKS! These rebounds that Mo doesn't get that any other PF would get are additional possessions the other team gets. That hurts our team's chances of winning no matter what some stats might say. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Oatdog (edited November 16, 2000).]
I'm just arguing with those people talking about how Fortson would be so much better, etc. Mo's rebounds will get better. All you can ask of him is to give 100% on the boards, and I do believe he is. They will eventually come. Just be patient. It's all about winning, and we did it tonight along with the help of Mo. GO ROCKETS!!! ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Did Moochie have more rebounds than Mo tonight in a lot less minutes? Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
Another 2 boards for Mo tonight, geez he works hard on the boards ------------------ www.JEFFforGOVERNOR.com
Gotta love the way so many fans are here. Doesn't matter the vast offensive game he showed. Doesn't matter that he gives 100%. Doesn't matter that he made clutch basket after clutch basket, and we probably couldn't have won without him. But a couple of rebounds don't break his way so jump all over him. Sad. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
