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We need a hybrid 1/2 (Mad Max) instead of a conventional PG

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Plowman, Aug 10, 2013.

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  1. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I did, I posted a crap load of Maxwell videos .
     
    #161 tinman, Aug 12, 2013
  2. mikennite

    mikennite Member

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    If we're going by handles, we should get back Rafer Alston, aka Skip to My Loulmao.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qohcD5SOjXQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    #162 mikennite, Aug 12, 2013
  3. mikennite

    mikennite Member

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    Here's a more recent video to him

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4EbgefgZCok" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    #163 mikennite, Aug 12, 2013
  4. Plowman

    Plowman Member

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    For the sake of clarity (and the board's sanity), I wanted to reiterate/amplify on my original post.

    Given the makeup of this year's squad and the fact that we are contenders, I think it is incumbent to shore it up out top (yes, we need a four, but that is likely on the way soon) and I feel what we need is a guy in the mold of Mad Max.

    I asked for ideas? An there weren't many takers.....I tossed out Crawford, King1 - Mayo, and larvs8 - Courtney Lee

    For the purposes of our conversation, I wanted to leave Jeremy out of the equation.
    Unfortunately, I felt compelled to give some reasons why....

    In retrospect, I wish I hadn't done that, because it both distracted from what I was trying to pull from you guys with my OP...and it opened the gates for LINSANITY.

    BUT, since we're on the subject, let me get a few things straight ......

    This is not a racial/ethnic deal...and though it may appear that way, it's not personal.....against HIM.

    IT has to do with what I feel is best for the Houston Rockets.

    This can be broken down into two parts -

    The main thing at present is what I perceive to be Jeremy's deficiencies on and off the court ....This is the beginning of our Championship window and we just don't have the margin for error.

    And Les's behavior as owner.....what Jeremy represents in this.

    Lin off the court - That salary. There is absolutely no room on a serious title contender for this kind of contract. It interferes with us being able to go out and get what we need.

    Lin on the court - While Jeremy boasts terrific head on speed, he's sorely lacking when it comes to lateral movement. He plays the passing lanes well, but this problem causes him to get beat off the dribble way too much.
    Also, there is the matter of turnovers. It's unacceptable to have your PG making the kind of mistakes he routinely does out there.
    His J - For the better part of his tenure it has been inconsistent.
    Now, on size and athleticism - I alluded to lack of lateral movement earlier..But it is my belief that he is a SOFT 6'3" 200lb guy ESP.WHEN SPOKEN OF AS A SUCCESSFUL COMBO GUARD(in NBA terms). I hear a lot of people talking measurements with Vernon and saying they're comparable. C'mon - Maxwell was 6'4", LONG, STRONG, and perhaps one of the most athletic guys to ever play in the NBA. And he had that EDGE (which was mentioned earlier by a fellow poster). Also, to have the CHANCE to be successful, he needs the ball in his hands. As I see it, Jeremy has a terrific "playground game" and I'm not sure how this translates in the NBA on a consistent basis.(unless there is a Steve Novak making ungodly 3's shooting 70%). That Knick team was able to play over their heads with Jeremy at the controls for a stretch....but you can't keep that up. Also factored into that was the change in style/attitude once Melo was out.

    The Les factor - He inherited one helluva team and made a couple of good moves initially. (although the Barkley move will be debated by some until the cows come home) Hindsight IS 20 - 20 though. Anyway, Les was always enamored with the SPLASH move from the get go....for better or worse. Enter Yao. Now, Yao Ming was great for the game of basketball worldwide, an ambassador like no other. He was also obviously quite a player. But then the injuries started....If one understands the history of big men and foot injuries in the NBA, then it's self explanatory. After the second, Les should have let go and dealt him. But Leslie was making massive amounts of money (100's of millions) through business connections he was making in China and didn't want it to stop. Meanwhile, we Rockets fans were at his mercy.....basically eventually held hostage to Les's greed. Yes, we almost won a title in 2006, but it was a sloowww bleed we all had to deal with.
    Flash forward to the Lin signing...A move designed to keep that flow/contacts going in the Far East...all the hallmarks of a Les/Drayton splash promo, keep the cash register going, but no titles......JEREMY LIN IS REPRESENTATIVE OF LESLIE'S mentality/attitude. He's an incredible businessman. It's not JL's fault...just is what it is. In reality, I see him caught up in the transition from show and dough...to actually competing for titles.
    The one constant in this has been our magnificient, wizard of a GM, Daryl Morey. Without him, Les wouldn't have been able to have his cake and eat it too. THERE IS NO WAY WE WOULD BE POSITIONED WHERE WE ARE. In fact, it would likely be pretty brutal around here.
    So, while I give Les credit for flying to Aspen and doing what he has of late, he's banked close to $1,000,000,000.00 in the Far East.

    All said, I'm a Rockets fan first, foremost, and always....I love the incredible transformation that Morey has accomplished and am eager for the Classic Championship matchups to come.
     
    #164 Plowman, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  5. macho GRANDE

    macho GRANDE Elvis, was a hero to most but................

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    ^^^ Excellent post.
     
    #165 macho GRANDE, Aug 12, 2013
  6. langal

    langal Member

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    I don't think Lin's salary is that bad - considering how wise Morey has been. Yes he and Asik are overpaid for what their roles are probably going to entail - but not egregiously so. Asik's contract can be dumped in a half a second if Morey wanted to.

    Lin's contract is harder to move. But I just don't think the 8 million dollar cap hit is too bad - probably a few million more than his worth - but we more than "make up for it" with Parson's and Bev's cheap contracts. The team's overall budget is fine.

    Egregious would be a max contract (with a couple of years left) for damaged goods or building around the wrong type of guy (Carmelo, Joe Johnson, etc.). If we had Amare and Joe Johnson on the books? - then yes, Lin's 8 million can become a bottleneck. But I think we're fine right now. Lin could very well play up to the 8 million. That is reasonable for the 3/4th option on a contending team.

    I don't think Lin is physically weak or "soft" either. He is probably one of the stronger pg's in the league. That may have to do moreso with perception after the playoff fiasco.
     
    #166 langal, Aug 12, 2013
  7. langal

    langal Member

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    What irks me about Maxwell is that he could have been so much more than his career turned out to be.
     
    #167 langal, Aug 12, 2013
  8. Ultimate6thMan

    Ultimate6thMan Member

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    Do you have any FACTS to back up your "OPINIONS"?

    What point guard is out there that is better than Jeremy in which:
    a) We can trade for or sign (meaning they or their team is willing)?
    b) Costs less money?
    c) Had better stats last year? (pts/gm, assists, 3pt %, etc.)
    d) If the same age or younger with upside?

    If you have no answer or suggestion for this, you are only hating on the Rockets because you want a certain player gone but with no better solution.

    Beverley starting with AB or Canaan backing him up will not be better for the Rockets than JLin starting and Beverly backing him up, IMHO.

    If you are truly a Rockets fan, ALL OF YOU PEOPLE stop hating on our starting PG and support him to get better as a player; something we won't EVERY SINGLE PLAYER to do including our two SUPERSTARS!
     
    #168 Ultimate6thMan, Aug 12, 2013
  9. Plowman

    Plowman Member

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    Asik is a top 10 center, a steal at what he gets paid.

    And with all due respect, JLin isn't a 3rd or 4th option on a Title team....ergo doesn't deserve that much cheese.

    We are dealing from a position of strength. Quality/veteran players want to come play here for much less, to have a chance at multiple titles. We don't have to hope JL plays up to his contract or some % of it....That kind of unknown commodity is pretty much unacceptable/unnecessary at this point

    OLT...I think, AT BEST, we'd be trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
     
    #169 Plowman, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  10. SC1211

    SC1211 Member

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    I really fail to see how Lin's salary is bad. I think we're so spoiled with Moreyball contracts that it feels weird for us to pay someone about what they deserve. Lin is a decent defender, killer pick and roll player and a rapidly improving shooter when not injured. Oh yeah, and 24 years old.

    Linsanity has destroyed any chances he'll live up to expectations which is a shame. He's a really solid player.
     
    #170 SC1211, Aug 12, 2013
  11. Plowman

    Plowman Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #171 Plowman, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  12. Ultimate6thMan

    Ultimate6thMan Member

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    Last year JLin averages were:

    Pts/gm 13.4
    Assists/gm 6.1
    3PT% .339

    Since 2000, that's only been accomplished by 25 different PGs within their first 5 years in the league, and a total of 38 times.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2001&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=5&age_min=20&age_max=29&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=13&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=fg3_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.33&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g#stats::none
     
    #172 Ultimate6thMan, Aug 12, 2013
  13. Ultimate6thMan

    Ultimate6thMan Member

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    More fun for you if you wanna go first 3 years in the league at PG under 25. Only done by 15 different players on 17 different occasions. SMH

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2001&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=3&age_min=20&age_max=25&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=13&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=fg3_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.33&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g#stats::none
     
    #173 Ultimate6thMan, Aug 12, 2013
  14. Ultimate6thMan

    Ultimate6thMan Member

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    And just to go a step further, I fully expect that he will average a MINIMUM of 15 pts/gm with 7 assists and shoot .380 or better from 3PT range, ranking him only with 1 other PG since 2000 to accomplish this in his first 4 seasons in the league:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2001&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=4&age_min=20&age_max=25&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=15&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=fg3_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.38&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g#stats::none

    And ONLY 4 PGS IN LEAGUE HISTORY TO EVER DO IT:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1947&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=4&age_min=20&age_max=25&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=15&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=7&c3stat=fg3_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=.38&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g#stats::none
     
    #174 Ultimate6thMan, Aug 12, 2013
  15. mikennite

    mikennite Member

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    Those numbers sound realistic for Lin next year.
     
    #175 mikennite, Aug 12, 2013
  16. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member

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    Alright I'm so sick of this... Want stats? Let's look at playoff stats. Jeremy lin's playoff stats and beverly stats. Jlin- 4 ppg 2 rpg 2 ast per game fg 25% and 16.7 % from 3. Great stats ehh?! What were his knicks stats during the playoffs? Oh yeah I forgot he was a no call no show either. Pat beverly stats were 11.8 ppg 5.5 rbpg 2.8 apg 41%fg 37% 3pt 1.2 steals per game. Beverly's stats may not be awesome but they are definitely way better than Lin's. Is that worth 25 million dollars? This site is called called Clutchcity for a reason. Players like Maxwell, kenny, horry, cassell, drexler, even scott brooks, bullard,Dream, thorpe and more Stepped up. Barkley even called us the team of Destiny. Injured, fasting, bruised, or even just pushed to the brink... They stepped up and pulled through. They performed when it counted. Lin choked and cried. If you honestly think any "TRUE Rocket" FAN is going to be ok with that then you are insane. Guys like Plowman, Clutch, Tinman, dadakota, Doc Rocket and alot of old timers have seen what the recipe is to bring this city a Championship. We lived through it in 93-95, a time when some of the players on this current roster couldn't even grow hair on their nuts (except for camby). Lin is just another role player. One who costs alot of money and is not a block we're building on. If we can get a young maxwellesque player, then heck yes get him. Clutch and a fierce competitor/ defender would be awesome on this roster. I'm with you on that plowman.
     
    #176 tycoonchip, Aug 13, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  17. Ultimate6thMan

    Ultimate6thMan Member

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    You obviously are half INSANE due to your NY living situation. To even bring up Lin's stats for the playoffs, when he missed them because of a knee injury in NY, and only played 1 and a half game's before injury last year, is totally biased and insane. ANYONE, including LBJ can have a bad 1 and a half games, and LBJ has in several playoff series.

    I'm a Beverley fan and love his play off the bench for our team. But you are right, his stats starting does not make me even consider to replace Lin in the starting line up with Bev.

    I have been a Rockets fan since 1986 and followed Hakeem (Akeem) and Clyde from UofH and the Phi Slamma Jamma days, so don't talk to me about what old timers think as though that supports your ridiculous assertions.

    The stats that I quoted are not opinions, except that ones that I think he can achieve this year. The problem with people like YOU sir, is that even if he achieves those stats this year that only 4 other PGs in league history have done in their first 4 years, you will still find a reason to degrade him because of your undeserved bias.

    Sure Lin has faults, every player in the League does, including every player on the Rockets team and also LBJ. I love my Rockets, and for any SO-CALLED Rockets fan to spout so much HATE/DISLIKE or whatever you want to call it, for a player that CLEARLY helped us make it to the playoffs last year, well you can pick another team in my book because you are NO ROCKETS FAN that I would ever want to watch a game with.
     
    #177 Ultimate6thMan, Aug 13, 2013
  18. AVoiceInACrowd

    AVoiceInACrowd Member

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    He was #7 for turnovers for shooting guards last year and had almost as many turnovers as assists.
     
    #178 AVoiceInACrowd, Aug 13, 2013
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