We need a hybrid 1/2 (Mad Max) instead of a conventional PG

Crawford has some of the best handles in the game.

 

I think OP needs time machine.

 

what we really need is october 30th.

 

More than yours mate. I was just pointing out the fact that the OP derailed his own thread by making it a Lin bashing thread with his last comment...

That being said, I'm a loyal fan of the Houston Rockets, & have been since the 80's. it actually pains me to see the fighting, hatred and hurtful comments that our fans are directing at each other. The OP had a valid point, but IMO, tarnished this thread by putting in his remark about Jeremy Lin.

This was the quote again:

There was no need for that added comment. It was either just a way to make another 'I hate Jeremy' thread, a cry for attention or a way to get more views on this thread by turning it into a Lin debate and not a comparrative look at players today who are in the mold of Mad Max.
Agree?

Lin is our starting point guard, will not get dealt unless it is for a star, or something close to a star. He has good size for a point guard at 6'3", is one of the quickest point guards in the league, as well as being athletic.
The statistics show that he is a better defender & that we are better defensively as a team with Lin at the PG instead of Bev, and finally his jumpshot became more consistent as the season wore on and he recuperated from his various injuries, which included a major knee surgery.

Everything point made in that quote was so far off base that, once again IMO, it was just a blatant attack on Lin to conjure up defensive responses from his fans (...sort of like poking a stick at a caged animal), and in no way was the quote ment to be a point of mature discussion.

I don't understand why so many of y'all (not you in particular) but a lot of y'all, hate on Lin so much?
He is an awesome young man, who has opened up the Asian market once again for the Rockets. He has brought a heap of fans to our team...that we should be welcoming not trying to alienate!

Rockets merchandise is available in countries outside of the USA again (praise God!) and he is of good character. A humble, hard working & dedicated young guy who has a hunger & desire to improve himself consistently, on & off the court. A young guy who was good enough to have the 2 best players at their respective positions want to play with him in Harden & Howard.

Not only that, he is the type of guy who never gives up, and will do whatever it takes to reach his goals, shown by his determination to get back into the league after being dumped by Warriors.

I believe that he has the potential to average around 16ppg-( maybe even 17.5ppg) this year, along with around 11-12assists & close to 2 steals.

His FG%, especially his 3 point% is bound to go up now that he is fully recovered from his injuries, & the fact that Howard will command a double team in the post...leaving Lin wide open more often than he has in his entire career. Having Howard will also increase his assists and decrease his turnovers, because Howard can & will catch Lin's lobs & bounce passes, unlike Asik who struggled at times to keep a grip on a great deal of passes.

Yes I'm a Rockets fan, as well as a Lin fan, before he went Linsane in New York (look up the GlenRice 'kiss the a** of a donkey' Lin bets posted somewhere in the GARM for proof), but if was to be traded for a 'superstar' point guard that would or could basically guarantee us a trip to the finals, with multiple rings...I wouldn't cry about it.

I just wish we could stop all the 'HATE' & mudslinging here on Clutchfans, & start showing some L-O-V-E to one another. Cool?

That's all.


EDIT: sorry for the long post...I had ankle surgery on Monday and it looks like the pain killers kicked in around the second paragraph!

 

13pt, 6a, and 3rb, on 44% shooting, 34% from 3

6pt, 5 rbs, 62% shooting
6pt, 2rbs, 45% shooting
5pt, 3rbs, 45% shooting


One of these players is projected as our staring point guard. The others are going to battle for power forward minutes. Without looking at names, I think it's clear which position an upgrade is most needed. Saying we need a better/diff point guard at this point is like when you go to the gym and see a guy that needs to lose 30 pounds spending all his time doing crunches. Yeah, core workouts are important but you probably need to focus on shedding fat that point...I know our power forwards are young and they are likely to improve, but it's not likely this season one of them jumps up in production enough to be a difference making power forward on a contending team. Especially since they are all uniformly defensive liabilities. Anyone seriously concerned with the Rockets upgrading right now should be talkinga bout upgrading at the 4 spot, not point guard. That's why threads like these seem kinda silly to me. How are you going to quibble over Lin, and even his backups, when we still have the power forward position situation? Mario Chalmers, George Hill, Tony Parker, and Mike Conley were the starting point guars for the final four teams. Z-Bo, Bosh, Duncan, West were the starting power forwards. One of those groups is clearly more formidable.

 

We don't need to explain how the board was before Lin. People come in here with the preconceived notion that everyone was against Lin.
Let them do their own research .

 

You lost me when you called Max a hybrid. Just because a SG can create and have nice assist numbers occassionally, doesn't mean he is a PG/SG. Check out Max with the 76ers, he played PG and only had 4.4 assists per game (not even a career high) and he was still chucking it up because that's what he was: a shooter!

 

^THIS^

Anything else is just a LOFH, LOH or ABJ issue.

We really need one of our PFs to step up BIG TIME, or make a trade by the deadline for a better PF in order to really contend this year. But I am willing to give our current PFs till right before the trade deadline to show if they deserve to still be with us or replaced.

 

Maybe he remembered that Max led the Rockets in assists in 94 when we won the title.

However I don't like the Maxwell as a PG because as you mentioned Maxwell/Stackhouse backcourt was a failed experiment.

If he left out "instead of a conventional PG" than it would be an easy answer.

I think every team needs a Vernon Maxwell.

 

Nope. Only Houston does.
Vernon's tenacity is legendary and that's what our current roster seems to lack.

Oh and his series-clinching 3 is my all-time favorite Rocket memory.

 

Just going over the stats from our glory days and found something to put your mind at ease. You say that we need a Mad Max type player...a hybrid 1/2 etc, etc, etc.

Well we already have a guy, whose stats are very similar to Vernon 'Mad Max' Maxwell! His name?

Wait for it...



You guessed it: Jeremy Lin!

In fact, whilst the PPG are almost identical, everything else, across the board come close, but Lin is slightly better. Vernon did hit an extra 3 pointer per game, at an average of 2.2 made from 6.9 attempts, while Lin only hit 1.1 from 3.1 attempts.

Anyhow, here is a stat comparison from Jeremy Lin's first year as a Rocket & Vernon Maxwell's Last season as a Rocket; 94-95.

Jeremy Lin 13.4 ppg .441% .339%x3pt .785 FT% 3.4 Rbd 6.8 ast 1.8stl 0.4 Blk 2.9 TO 2.5F
Mad Max: 13.3 ppg .394% .324%x3pt .688 FT% 2.6 Rbd 4.3 ast 1.2stl 0.2 Blk 2.1 TO 2.5F

We don't need a Mad Max type hybrid player, we already have one in Lin. Heck Lin is even slightly better in his FIRST full season as a starter.

Wasn't doing that tinman, my mate. I was just trying to point out that all this hatred and animosity directed at one player, and the huge amount of fans that he has brought to the Rockets is the wrong thing to do, and is getting real old real quick.

I love my Rockets, and Mad Max had his moments...I still remember that falling out of bounds, last second game winner ( against the Warriors from memory ), but I also remember him punching a fan in the stands at Portland, & then he faked an injury, bailed on us in the playoffs because he didn't want to back up a Hall of Fame superstar in Clyde Drexler.

I hope & pray that Lin continues to improve, & that he can lead us to multiple championships in the very, very near future. Heck apart from his turnovers and some rookie mistakes, he did pretty OK in his first season as a starter.

His Linsanity streak happened when the 'stars' on NY were out injured. Here last season, he was rehabbing from his own injury, & he deferred to Harden on many occasions. Sometimes he did look a little lost out there, at other times he looked, dare I say it...Linsane!

Consistency is the Key for Lin. That and continued improvement.

The OP wanted someone 'like' a Mad Max, well we already have a slightly better version in the player that he said:

Well stats show that Lin is up to the task, & did it better than Maxwell.
Stats also show that he is more effective, efficient & consistent than Maxwell. Also Lin is as good as, or even a better defender statistically than Maxwell and not only that, the OP'S comment about 'Lacks the Size!'????

Jeremy Lin is 6'3 (191cm) 200lbs, Maxwell is 6'4" (193cm) 180lbs
They are both basically the same size, there is less than an inch difference! Lin is also 20lbs heavier than Mad Max, you could say that he has a little more 'sand in the pants!'

The facts presented have rendered the OP's argument invalid & points moot.

This was nothing more than a poorly disguised Lin bashing thread.

Spoiler

 

Numbers don't fully measure Maxwell's impact. He was our backcourt enforcer and a plus defender. Perhaps Jeremy will learn to play with more confidence as he gains more experience but until he does comparing him to Maxwell is (insert spoiler pic of Ludacris).

 

Come on man, you know Lin is not as good as defender as Maxwell.
The Rockets single covered Reggie Miller, Drexler, and Michael Jordan with Maxwell.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/M4HUbshhvyg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't he is as quick and athletic as maxwell, though I do think he is quick.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/a0EBMl-UDno" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Vernon Maxwell was one of my favourites back in the day, and yes he did play great defence in stretches...it's easy to play single coverage when the all time leader in block shots, plus an enforcer like OT is back there ready to either swat the shot or swat the player...

In the 17 games that Maxwell played against Jordan, Air Jordan averaged 30.6ppg, including two 40 point games. Bulls won 11 of those games.

22 games vs Reggie Miller, Reggie averaged 20.2 & won 13.

32 games vs The Glove, Gary averaged 16.4 & won 22 of those games.

Against Payton, I'll agree that he held him to below his average for that part of his career, and he did pretty well against Jordan on some occasions, but while he was hard as nails, rough as guts & wouldn't back down from anyone, his defensive presence has been blown out of proportion to the point of giving it a legendary mythical type of aura.

He was good, but not great.

 

Tell me what the average is with Maxwell on the Rockets vs MJ, forget Philly

 

I hate to bust you my man, but you're not reading the stats correctly

the two 40 point games were when Maxwell was NOT with the Rockets.
Also the big key is that with minutes played. Maxwell with the Spurs played like 25 minutes vs MJ's 46. Also Maxwell in Philly, look at that game,
Maxwell only played 18 minutes!! I'm sure that was STACKHOUSE who was guarding him that game.

Look at Rockets vs Bulls, look at games when they played similar minutes

<PRE>
Rk Player Date Tm Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Michael Jordan 1989-02-09 CHI SAS W 1 43:00 9 20 .450 0 0 5 8 .625 3 3 6 9 2 1 6 2 23
2 Vernon Maxwell 1989-02-09 SAS CHI L 0 31:00 8 15 .533 1 5 .200 2 2 1.000 1 2 3 1 0 0 1 3 19
3 Michael Jordan 1989-02-28 CHI SAS W 1 34:00 11 16 .688 0 0 2 2 1.000 4 2 6 8 2 1 4 1 24
4 Vernon Maxwell 1989-02-28 SAS CHI L 0 22:00 6 13 .462 0 1 .000 2 2 1.000 1 1 2 3 1 1 2 1 14
5 Michael Jordan 1989-12-29 CHI SAS W 1 42:00 10 26 .385 1 2 .500 13 15 .867 1 4 5 7 3 0 4 4 34
6 Vernon Maxwell 1989-12-29 SAS CHI L 0 25:00 3 8 .375 1 3 .333 1 2 .500 2 1 3 3 0 0 3 1 8
7 Michael Jordan 1990-02-03 CHI SAS L 1 46:00 17 32 .531 2 4 .500 8 8 1.000 3 0 3 5 2 0 3 3 44
8 Vernon Maxwell 1990-02-03 SAS CHI W 0 18:00 2 4 .500 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 0 0 0 1 1 4
9 Michael Jordan 1991-01-03 CHI HOU L 1 33:00 13 22 .591 0 0 6 7 .857 0 3 3 7 3 1 4 2 32
10 Vernon Maxwell 1991-01-03 HOU CHI W 1 27:00 6 12 .500 2 5 .400 0 0 0 4 4 2 2 0 2 2 14
Rk Player Date Tm Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
11 Michael Jordan 1991-03-25 CHI HOU L 1 37:00 15 25 .600 0 2 .000 4 7 .571 5 2 7 4 3 3 0 3 34
12 Vernon Maxwell 1991-03-25 HOU CHI W 1 40:00 9 18 .500 1 8 .125 0 0 1 3 4 2 0 0 0 2 19
13 Michael Jordan 1992-01-25 CHI HOU W 1 41:00 12 27 .444 3 3 1.000 8 10 .800 0 3 3 5 4 1 4 2 35
14 Vernon Maxwell 1992-01-25 HOU CHI L 1 23:00 5 13 .385 1 5 .200 6 6 1.000 0 1 1 0 2 1 3 6 17
15 Michael Jordan 1992-01-30 CHI HOU L 1 43:00 9 26 .346 0 1 .000 4 4 1.000 2 3 5 5 3 0 1 3 22
16 Vernon Maxwell 1992-01-30 HOU CHI W 1 37:00 7 13 .538 1 2 .500 8 11 .727 1 1 2 3 1 0 5 4 23
17 Michael Jordan 1992-12-11 CHI HOU L 1 40:00 11 23 .478 1 3 .333 3 3 1.000 4 7 11 4 0 1 4 4 26
18 Vernon Maxwell 1992-12-11 HOU CHI W 1 40:00 8 14 .571 1 5 .200 2 4 .500 0 3 3 3 2 0 2 2 19
19 Michael Jordan 1993-01-28 CHI HOU L 1 39:00 12 27 .444 1 1 1.000 1 2 .500 0 6 6 4 5 0 3 2 26
20 Vernon Maxwell 1993-01-28 HOU CHI W 1 42:00 6 11 .545 3 6 .500 3 5 .600 0 2 2 3 0 1 5 2 18
Rk Player Date Tm Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
21 Michael Jordan 1996-01-13 CHI PHI W 1 34:00 18 28 .643 5 7 .714 7 7 1.000 3 7 10 2 1 1 2 1 48
22 Vernon Maxwell 1996-01-13 PHI CHI L 0 14:00 1 8 .125 0 5 .000 2 2 1.000 1 0 1 2 0 0 0 1 4
23 Michael Jordan 1996-01-16 CHI PHI W 1 32:00 13 22 .591 2 6 .333 4 6 .667 3 4 7 2 3 0 1 1 32
24 Vernon Maxwell 1996-01-16 PHI CHI L 0 30:00 6 16 .375 3 8 .375 4 4 1.000 1 3 4 3 0 0 2 3 19
25 Michael Jordan 1996-03-18 CHI PHI W 1 47:00 15 32 .469 0 5 .000 8 10 .800 2 9 11 4 1 0 2 5 38
26 Vernon Maxwell 1996-03-18 PHI CHI L 1 29:00 5 13 .385 3 6 .500 5 8 .625 0 1 1 4 0 1 4 4 18
27 Michael Jordan 1996-04-12 CHI PHI W 1 29:00 10 16 .625 2 4 .500 1 1 1.000 2 1 3 0 4 1 2 2 23
28 Vernon Maxwell 1996-04-12 PHI CHI L 1 40:00 7 17 .412 1 8 .125 3 7 .429 1 3 4 6 3 0 4 3 18
29 Michael Jordan 1996-11-30 CHI SAS W 1 38:00 14 35 .400 2 5 .400 5 5 1.000 0 9 9 3 0 0 1 0 35
30 Vernon Maxwell 1996-11-30 SAS CHI L 0 32:00 3 13 .231 0 4 .000 0 1 .000 0 2 2 0 1 1 2 2 6
Rk Player Date Tm Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
31 Michael Jordan 1997-03-05 CHI SAS W 1 23:00 7 17 .412 1 4 .250 1 2 .500 1 1 2 4 2 0 0 1 16
32 Vernon Maxwell 1997-03-05 SAS CHI L 0 31:00 2 10 .200 0 3 .000 3 4 .750 1 1 2 3 0 0 5 2 7
33 Michael Jordan 1998-02-11 CHI CHH W 1 41:00 11 22 .500 0 0 7 9 .778 1 3 4 6 0 0 1 2 29
34 Vernon Maxwell 1998-02-11 CHH CHI L 0 23:00 1 7 .143 0 4 .000 2 2 1.000 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 5 4
</PRE>

 

As I added on your other thread:

If you take 1991 into account, Rockets were 5-1 during that time frame.

I'm not hating on Mad Max, I was just about to post the stats before you did, I'm just saying that he was a good defender, not 'legendary great' as some seem to think. And he fact remains that it's easy to single cover guys when you have Hakeem guarding the paint.

Agree?

 

Dream is a factor yes, but it wouldn't say it's easy to single cover Michael Jordan in his prime, or reggie miller in his prime, or clyde drexler in his prime.

As far as the initial argument that started this,

100 out of 100 times would I pick Maxwell as a DEFENDER over Jeremy Lin.
Hakeem or no Hakeem, Dwight or no Dwight.

 

Based off of that one post, I suddenly lack knowledge about the NBA? You can't make wild assumptions that I, or anyone else in this thread, know nothing about the NBA, nevertheless the Rockets.

Second, even if there are some new Rockets' fans in this thread, matter the fact board, you should encourage them to learn more about the Rockets. Instead, you're scolding them for the lack of knowledge they have.

Also, I didn't mean to get on the wrong end after posting that post. I was so blinded with hatred at the time that I didn't even realize how hateful it sounded.... And so, I agree to show love and respect towards my fellow Rockets' fans.

 

No problem.

I was just giving love to Plowman and tycoonchip, that's all.
Like the NWO giving props to the NWO.