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We might have the worst defensive frontcourt in the league

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BrooksBall, Feb 28, 2010.

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  1. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    Maybe the warriors frontcourt is worse, but I can't think of too many other teams.

    How long can we play them together? It doesn't matter how much they score if they let the guys on the other team score even more. We are going to get man handled by teams with big forwards and centers.
     
    #1 BrooksBall, Feb 28, 2010
  2. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

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    Patience. We need our defensive-minded players back on the court.

    We also know that DM will find us another big this summer.

    In other words, this season is a lost cause.

    EDIT:
    [​IMG]
     
    #2 sammy, Feb 28, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    When Chuck Hayes is getting thumped by Boozer and Okur you just KNOW it is not our night.

    Sometimes the other team just out plays ya...

    DD
     
    #3 DaDakota, Feb 28, 2010
  4. BleedRocketsRed

    BleedRocketsRed Contributing Member

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    I don't think this would be the case once Yao gets back.
     
    #4 BleedRocketsRed, Feb 28, 2010
  5. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    David Anderson should not sniff an NBA basketball court...


    Jared Jeffries should not sniff an NBA basketball court...


    Chuck Hayes is good for about 10-15 minutes of top notch defense, no more...


    Play Jordan Hill...
     
    #5 RudyTBag, Feb 28, 2010
  6. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    Any frontcourt that has both battier and chuck Hayes playing significant minutes would NOT be anything close to resembling a poor defensive unit let alone the worst. Battier continues to play incredible help defense, takes charges, stays in front of his man and is the consumate professional. Hayes while undersize is one of THE best defensive pf/centers in the league. In the games i've watch, far from being abuse by centers and big forwards, Hayes has played them as well as anyone in the league!

    Granted Scola and landry (b4 the trade) were both overmatched defensively, but hardly horrific enough to solely merit the rockets frontcourt the worst in the league.

    There is no way the rockets have been a worst frontcourt all season long than the, Raptors (bargani, Hedo, Bosh) Warriors (Beidrens/Mags/Morrow) NY (Lee, Galinari, Harrington) Kings (Hawes,Thompson,Caspi) or pheonix as well as a few others.
     
    #6 blahblehblah, Feb 28, 2010
  7. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    No more fan favorite Scollandry combo who were rarely put at fault. All about what each player at each position can produce now. Accountability all around.

    People are dumping ONLY on the guards, the Aar-Martin combo.

    Boozer + Millsap = combined 16-19 FG.

    I dont think Hayes was directly on Okur, but Okur was the only one held to around his season average.
     
    #7 Shroopy2, Feb 28, 2010
  8. Karolik

    Karolik Member

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    Err, Have you seen Battier play recently? The man is declining, he is no longer the same defender from 2007. Chuck Hayes is our only good defender and even he gets burned sometimes. Our front court is definitely pretty darn close to, if not poor.
     
    #8 Karolik, Feb 28, 2010
  9. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    All I was getting at with this thread is that it's not just our backcourt that should be of concern, particularly if Yao can't come back strong.

    Given all the stud perimeter defenders we have on this team this season in Battier, Ariza and Lowry as well as an all-around great defender in Hayes, you have to wonder if being able to protect the rim and paint with length and girth the way Yao did wasn't something like 90% of the reason we've been a top defensive team both before and after JVG up until this season.

    An aging Rafer and particularly, an aging McGrady, weren't exactly some kind of defensive juggernaut in the backcourt.

    McGrady regularly took off defensive possessions in recent years, dating back to well before the knee issues.

    Rafer has the rep of being a solid defensive PG but he got abused quite a bit himself, particularly in the playoffs by guess who? Deron Williams. Rafer was better defensively at his position than the version of McGrady we had the last few seasons was at his position but by no means were they elite. I guess some would argue that Rafer was but I never saw it that way. He was just sound positionally and had pretty good hands. He wasn't quick or strong enough to stay with most of the elite guards and got burned quite a bit.
     
    #9 BrooksBall, Feb 28, 2010
  10. JPhil93

    JPhil93 Member

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    Ehh i really cant agree with you on this one.
    David Andersen does have an upside but will get outplayed from night to night against teams like orlando who have D Howard

    Jeffries is a good defensive player who can help this teams but first we just have to undo what the knicks did

    Hayes yea sure 10-15 is good

    Jordan Hill should be sent to the D League
     
    #10 JPhil93, Feb 28, 2010
  11. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    Deron pretty much burns everybody during the playoffs.
     
    #11 ElPigto, Feb 28, 2010
  12. PeppermintCandy

    PeppermintCandy Member

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    He definitely burned the Rockets last night. When he went out, the Rockets actually started playing a semblance of a defense. But as soon as he returned to the court, it was back to messed up defensive rotations and wide open jumpers.
     
    #12 PeppermintCandy, Feb 28, 2010
  13. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Contributing Member

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    Also, people need to realize that you don't just look at what position an opposing player plays and say he burned our player at the same position.

    That is usually part of it but with today's rules when it comes to perimeter defense, it's nearly impossible to stop perimeter players from getting around the first line of defense without significant help from the frontcourt players on switches and what not.

    I'm not excusing perimeter defenders for sucking, just pointing out that it's not as simple as the opposing PG schooled Brooks or whoever the position and player may be on a given night.

    Battier has gotten schooled by numerous wing players this season. Stephen Jackson anyone? Again, it's not all his fault in those cases, either.

    There are clearly possessions where Brooks gets taken to school, not for a lack of effort, but because he is simply small. At the same time, there are other possessions where somebody else misses a rotation or doesn't get in position in time and that also results in an easy basket. It's not always our PG or our SG or whatever getting beaten 1-on-1. It's probably just as often breakdowns in the entire team defense, not just one player.

    In general, we were without Battier, Lowry and Ariza in last night's game.

    Chase Budinger is a bad, inexperienced defender.

    David Andersen is a horrible defender.

    Scola is a poor defender in certain situations despite his hustle and rebounding skills.

    Hayes is a brilliant defender but he's being asked to do too much given his lack of height/length. It's easier to get away with being undersized on the perimeter than under the basket.

    Martin is also still getting acquainted with the defensive schemes and rotations.

    Taylor got significant burn tonight and he gets lost on both ends frequently, not for a lack of effort, but because of having little game experience.

    We played essentially a 6-man rotation the night before with some players playing nearly the entire game. Even if the Jazz played last night as well, they went deeper into their bench and nobody played 40+ minutes. They also got to play at home on the back end of their back-to-back. That's an advantage in multiple ways, particularly in Utah's case with their homecourt advantage.

    It really shouldn't be that much of a surprise we got torched. And the Jazz truly were just stroking it. If you believe Morey, there is no such things as getting hot. They were just making shots like we did against the Bucks several games ago and against the Spurs the other night.
     
    #13 BrooksBall, Feb 28, 2010
  14. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    Well what do you expect he is one of the three best point guards in the league with CP3 and Nash, and has a good argument for being the best of the three. It is no disgrace to Aaron that he had a difficult time shutting him down, especially coming off of 47 minutes the night before.
     
    #14 OremLK, Feb 28, 2010
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  15. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    D-Will, that is.
     
    #15 OremLK, Feb 28, 2010
  16. jevon3012

    jevon3012 Member

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    Plus one of the worst defensive point guards.
     
    #16 jevon3012, Feb 28, 2010
  17. Chamillionaire

    Chamillionaire Member

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    agreed, simply put, we don't have the talent to compete with the top tier teams, a la jazzholes.
     
    #17 Chamillionaire, Feb 28, 2010
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    My recollection is that when Rafer first came to the Rockets, he was decidedly average as a team defender. Alston learned good team defense while he was under Van Gundy (I think he's still decidedly average as a man defender). My thought is that we have two point guards that can improve their defense and have been improving their defense. For Lowry, that aspect of his game seems to come naturally to him, just as with Brooks on the offensive side of the game, but I think they have both improved and will continue to improve, as I think Adelman values defense and has a good staff that will continue to work with Brooks and Lowry. Sadly, they can't do anything about their size, but size isn't everything.

    I've noticed as the season has gone on that AB's effectiveness doubling the opponent with the ball has improved. Because of his long arms and hops, Brooks can really be a pest guarding a much bigger player. My impression is that his defensive rotations have also improved, at least pre-trade. It's easier to point out improvements with Brooks, because Lowry was already an excellent defender, so his improvement is more incremental. Can someone with a better memory (it's late) point out an instance of what I'm talking about with Brooks? Maybe I'm imagining it. I'm not talking about tonight's game, as I'll be watching most of it in the morning, but games earlier in the season, before the trade.
     
    #18 Deckard, Feb 28, 2010
  19. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Contributing Member

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    From what I can tell, everyone was worried about other teams not beating him off the dribble, but backing him down trying to post him up. It happens rarely, but most of the time he holds his own out there. Seems most teams don't want to alter their offense to try and take advantage of the size of Brooks down low.

    He isn't as adept at getting in front of the ball handler and taking charges like Lowry or Battier are, but he seems to be making the proper rotations when he is supposed to. Tonight was just a cluster**** but it seems Bill and Bull are talking about a nice defensive effort for Brooks even if the shot goes in(which happens) more often than not lately.


    Everyone wanted to rip on him for TJ Ford going off a few games back, but someone broke it down and only one basket in the 4th quarter was attributed to bad defense by Brooks. The rest were plays or other transitions where rotations were missed.
     
    #19 BucMan55, Feb 28, 2010
  20. Ramathorn006

    Ramathorn006 Contributing Member

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    I strongly disagree. David Andersen is a horrible defender and he is below average at best on offense. He has no post moves. He is a very poor mans Okur if that.
     
    #20 Ramathorn006, Feb 28, 2010
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