Precurser: I am deeply sadened by this today. America is weaker this week then we last week. TJ, even if this were true..."conservatives" knew of this possibility before we started the war. The cold hard fact is that this was set in motion by W. Liberals didn't create this mess. Liberals can't exploit something out of thin air. W built this for himself...he should have known this was coming. This is your equivalent of the liberals blaming republicans for pursing Clinton when he lied under oath. Fact is, Clinton created that mess. Just like W created this mess. Only this time, the stakes are higher. Secondly, this has made headlines of every newspaper accross thw world. Can't blame liberals for that.
Well, logic reasons its only a few bad apples but once you put those pictures in Muslim hands...its the occupation as a whole who is guilty as seen by their eyes. Their not making the distinction. This is like adding petrol to Islamic propaganda.
MadMax supported this administration until very recently. This is more than one bad PR incident, this is yet one more in the LONG series of gaffes made by this administration.
What a total joke. Why are the liberals so quick to conclude that our mission in Iraq is a failure? It's almost as if they *want* it to be a failure. Of course they do. So that they can go around saying "nah nah nah nah nah, we told you so!" Pathetic. The War on Terror is not a mess or a failure. It is a LONG-TERM process. Freeing 50,000,000 people from tyranny and oppression is not a failure. Setting the stage for LONG-TERM stability in the region is not a failure. Offering freedom and democracy to 50,000,000 people is not a failure. Offering people hope and a chance at a better life is not a failure. Attacking the ROOT of the terrorist problem is not a failure. There will be bumps in the road over the short-term, as we have seen. The long-term goal is still highly attainable, and that is why we vigorously continue the effort. Were you liberals there in Germany and Japan after the end of WWII? Were you declaring those reconstruction efforts a failure after 1 year? Of course not. Keep wishing for the worst liberals, it's already lost you power at every level. Congrats on that.
The war against the terroristic-regime of Saddam's isn't easy...War by nature is not...but you have two main phases to the completion....: 1. overthrowing (which was easier than we thought), and 2. transitioning (which is a tad more challenging than we thought) ...this includes squelching insurgents and uprisings to afford a manner of handover conducive towards the Iraqi council authority...This is the ugly part of the commitment, and setbacks are sure to come along the way, what you see as a LONG series of gaffes, I see as the result of incidents which we must overcome to arrive completely in the transitional process...
This isn't pro football. This isn't a team sport. This is our country. And, yes...these were the products of a few bad apples. But this is the message that's sent today throughout the world....that Americans are everything you feared they would be. That they go to Saddam's old prison camp where he tortured and humiliated people...and they torture and humiliate people as well. And that is shameful. No one is happy about this. Take off the political lenses and recognize that, as you've preached before, there is right and there is wrong. And we're on the wrong side of that equation in this situation. And that is shameful. By the way...the contentions of these lower ranked soldiers is that the intelligence agents and interrogation officials ordered them to do this crap. They put one guy on a box, hooked him up to wires on a cold wet floor, and told him he better not fall off the box. They stripped the rest of them down and had them simulate sex acts while they all took pictures. If this were forced on US soldiers at war, we'd be screaming for the heads of those who forced it on us. Let us not be inconsistent when it comes to pointing out right and wrong. Because that would be shameful, too.
i'm not blaming this action on President Bush. now both sides are turning this into political opportunism and defense. that's not what this is about. at all.
Max, your demagoguery is a thin attempt at changing the subject. Are you proud to be an American? I am. Are you?
One of the things I'm most proud of about this country is that we freaking air our dirty laundry. That we don't hide from it. That we hold it out there for everyone to see. And we address and deal with it, because no one is above the rule of law. I'm hoping the same occurs here...and that those who were truly responsible for this are held accountable.
demagoguery? why am i not surprised this is the whole of your argument. i love my country....but my country isn't perfect. no country is. when it's time to be ashamed, i'm ashamed. when it's time to sing its praises and point out its virtues, i'll do that as well. but we're not bigger than right or wrong...not bigger than morality. and this was flat out wrong.
I don't think T_J is trying to say what they did was right, I don't think you'll find anybody who said that. Courtmarshall these guys and show that we don't accept this behavior. The lady general who was in charge was clearly in over her head, failing to rebuke these actions. Throw her in jail.
Sorry, I did not try to claim that you blamed Bush. I was merely pointing out that you supported the admin until recently, trying to give context to the quote that moron_jorge is attempting to bust your balls for. I do apologize if it sounded like I was trying to put words in your mouth.
Yeah, Max, there is no question you resorted to demagoguing the issue in order to further your argument. Your description of the wires/box/floor was intended to do that. Don't act like it wasn't. Here is the bottom line. I gave you a chance for you to say that you were proud to be an American. You declined to do it. That's telling...
I recognize that the war on terror will be a long process. Unfortunately, you can't seem to fathom that Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror, except that it is a distraction from said war.
andymoon, I urge you to go on record and say: 1) Iraq has never had ties to al queda 2) Iraq has never funded suicide bombers 3) Iraq has never supporter terror abroad 4) Iraq has never had the capacity to develop ties to terror. Please do it. Please.
You wouldn't know if TJ think what they did was right or wrong, because he hasn't criticized the people who did this. Instead he criticized those that spread the word that this happened and there were pictures of it. Those are the people who TJ chose to level his diatribes at, and not those who actually were the perpatrators of such dishonorable garbage. While TJ may not think what the soldiers did was right, his attacks weren't levelled at thim. So if people are baffeled by priorities like those, it's certainly understandable.
Wow. I guess this stuff happens and i don't believe for one second that it's representative of the women and men in the military...but...wow. They simply HAVE to deal with this immediately and harshly and they have to extend the responsibility quite far up the line. The worst thing they could do is to dismiss it as the actions of a few..they have to clearly demonstrate that they do not tolerate this stuff in any form. They absolutely must take this seriously.
