Examine the year 2000 draft. Draft picks can be really deceiving. There's only one player I'd want form that year, and I think he's massively overpaid. Try and guess which one?
So my questions for the OP are 1) how many games did you personally pay to go to last year, and 2) how many games will you personally pay for and attend during a tank season?
I said something similar earlier, I think we should try to win the first 3 quarters of every game and then kind of relax in the 4th quarters haha. A lottery pick sounds very nice and I can deal with us losing this year because we have been decimated by injuries and everyone expects us to fail this year anyways so it's not like we'd be disappointing anyone.
Pat- Ill blow your mind with this. I went to at least 15 games this year. Paid for everyone of them except for one. Got in with the rowdies for the OT Detroit game because my cousin is an OG as they would say. I also wore a bigfoot costume to the Blazers games because I am that crazy about it. Always do war paint or something. Ill be there if we are 0-82. This whole thread is about the idea that Yao, Tracy, this whole thing we have been building, it doesnt work and wont. We have waited long enough, given it time to run its course, and work out if it could. It cant. We cannot wait for Yao to come back. Brooks/Lowry Battier/Taylor Ariza/Budinger Scola/Landry/Andersen Hayes/Anderson/Doosey Morey is a smart guy, if this is what he trots out, even with McGrady coming back, is tanking. I dont see more than 32 wins out of that group myself. If Tracy were to come back in December, maybe 43-45. And as I said earlier, maybe you dont keep that high lotto pick. But that can usually net you a star caliber player.
Just imagine if every team that wasn't considered a title contender decided to tank. You'd have more teams trying to get OUT of the playoffs than trying to get IN! The East would be even more of a joke. Cleveland, Orlando, and Boston would have about 72 wins each and the next closest team would have 40.
so the coaches should tell our players before the season to not try hard and the teams goal is to lose 50 games? that should go over well
Because many of us are old enough to remember how the Rockets acquired Dream, and because many of us are realist about Yao ever being a franchise player, and because many of us think a trip to the 2010 lottery would be more beneficial to the team than getting swept out of the first round of next season's playoffs.
Intentionally losing games is tanking. Not playing your best players is tanking. Downgrading your roster by trading away veterans is tanking. Playing the hand you're dealt is not tanking. If we were tanking, Morey wouldn't have signed Ariza, wouldn't have traded for Andersen and left a hole at center, and would have already traded Tracy for spare parts. The last time we were in the lotto (after the first of Yao's injuries), we traded the 8th pick for Battier. Again, not a bad player but not star caliber either. If the team without Yao is bad enough to get into the lottery (likely), then that's fine. But intentionally losing games (that's what tanking is) is reprehensible. And the draft is so random that trying to get a higher pick probably hurts your more than it helps you.
Of course not. It's simply a matter of Morey and Les choosing not to add an aging star to the team and giving the rookies all the minutes they can handle.
No, silly. They can just repeat 1983. They can play Brent Barry for crazy minutes. They will claim that they are trying to reach Elvin Haye's 50,0000 career minutes record.
so seats will be filled up by people like u who pays for courtside seats to see us getting blown out every night. hmmm Les will do what you for ur money to watch so
Not that I condone it, but in '84 we could at least be guaranteed a top 2 pick. Hell, if we had lost the coin flip we might have picked Jordan at #2. Even with a lack of star power on this team, if we actively tried to tank I think we'd be hard pressed to even break into the bottom 7. And if you're that far from getting the most ping pong balls, why even try to tank?
Everyone remembers the Duncan pick, but let's take a broader look at what exactly teams get for tanking over the years to get a better handle on what we can generally expect. Lets assume for the moment that the Rockets are good enough at this "tanking" business in getting the worst record in the league. Lets see what having the worst record has gotten teams over the years (this is a result of a quick glance at the data over the years, let me know if I overlooked anything): (By the way, the lotto weights were changed in 1994, I belive, to give the very worst teams a better chance to win... this happened in response to the 41-41 Orlando Magic ending up with the top pick the year before). 1990: NJ Nets selected Derrick Coleman (1st pick) 1991: Denver Nuggets selected Dikembe Mutombo (4th pick) 1992: Minnesota T'Wolves selected Christian Laetter (3rd pick). 1993: Dallas Mavs selected Jamal Mashburn (4th pick) 1994: Dallas Mavs (again!) selected Jason Kidd (2nd pick) 1995: Los Angeles Clippers selected Antonio McDyess (2nd pick), and immediatley traded him for Rodney Rogers and the draft rights to Brent Barry. 1996: Vancouver Grizzlies selected Shareef Abdur Rahim (3rd pick) 1997: Vancounver Grizzlies selected Antonio Daniels (4th pick) 1998: Denver Nuggests selected Raef Lafrentz (3rd pick) 1999: Vancouver Grizzlies selected Steve Francis (2nd pick)-- and we know the rest of the story. 2000: Los Angeles Clippers selected Darius Miles (3rd pick) 2001: Chicago Bulls selected Eddy Curry (4th pick) 2002: (tied for worst record) Chicago Bulls selected Jason Williams (2nd pick); Golden State Warriors selected Mike Dunleavy Jr. (3rd pick). 2003: (tied for worst record) Cleveland Cavs selected Lebron James (1st pick) Denver Nuggest selected Carmelo Anthony (3rd pick) 2004: Orlando Magic selected Dwight Howard (1st pick) 2005: Atlanta Hawks selected Marvin Williams (2nd pick) 2006: Portland Trailblazers selected Tyrus Thomas (4th pick), traded to Chicago for 2nd pick LaMarcus Aldridge. 2007: Memphis Grizzlies selected Mike Conley Jr. (4th pick) 2008: Miami Heat selected Michael Beasley (2nd pick) 2009: Sac Kings selected Tyreke Evans (4th pick). A few thoughts: 1. A more expansive look to include, say, the teams with, say the 3 worst records, may be more informative, but I don't have the patience to do it. 2. The only true "superstars" on this list in my opinion are Dwight Howard, Lebron James, and Jason Kidd (and Dallas never really got good during Kidd's tenure), Francis (for Houston). There are other stars: Carmelo, Dikembe, McDyess (for Denver, not Clips who drafted him)... and many of those didn't exactly jolt the franchise to elite status. The book is out for the more recent draftees. 3. Query: What is the total number of championships won by the teams in the above group since they each had the worst record in the league? Hmmm... 4. The Grizzlies show up a lot on that list. 5. One might argue that "Morey's not a dumbass like some of these GMs so he won't be drafting busts like Eddy Curry" but in many of these instances, the guy actually picked were perfectly legitimate selections and there weren't exactly a superstar available to be selected that they'd pick only if they were smarter. Take the 2002 draft, for instance, you can laugh at GS's pick of Dunleavy all you want, but the next few picks were Gooden, Skita (remember him?), Wagner, Nene, Wilcox, and Amare. Of course, Amare would have been a great pick, but more than a few GMs, incluing Jerry West, chose not to pick him. I think the current Rockets front office has a better chance for getting the pick right, but there are no guarantees (besides, there is little a GM can do for things like Jason Williams' motorcycle accident). 6. So, what does a successful tanking effort (i.e. worst record in the league) get you in a lottery? Not exactly a great chance at a title. Not even a more than 25% chance at the 1st overall pick. You get about a 10% chance at true franchise superstar (assuming he becomes that with your franchise rather than, like Jason Kidd, with someone else). You also get a decent chance of getting a second-level (or 3rd level) star, assuming there is one available and you don't blow your pick on Antonio Daniels, Raef Lafrentz or Eddy Curry. How many of these teams even got up to, say, a 50-win record within the 4 or 5 years after the team tanked and go the talent infusion? So, is it worth it to "tank" (which I think will have to involve shipping off talent like Battier and Scola) instead of, say, keep the current roster together (which I think can realisticsly get a respectable record-- look at the Orlando Magic during the last year prior to TMac's arrival) and look to add talent by trade (TMac's expiring) or free agency?
There is a difference between trying to grab an aging star to desperately keep the team afloat and telling the team that they should play like junk. You play as hard as you can, with the hand we're dealt with and with what Morey gives us. If we lose 50 games due to the fact that 80% of the payroll is wasted, oh well. But that does not mean we intentionally lose games or not try to the best of our abilities. Besides, since when has anyone on this board advocated trading our young talent for an aging star to begin with?
