They are OK, above average, but I don't think they are better than Yao/Deke or say Duncan/Nazr/Rasha. But what makes Dallas rebounding much better than those teams was the collective wing length and quickness in guys like Howard, Dirk, Daniels, Stack, Griffin, Harris, and Terry through spots 1-4. Even Dirk wasn't that much better than Howard/Swift in rebounds per minute (nor better than Duncan when he played the 4), suggesting the biggest key was Dallas getting a lot more from there 1-3 spots than most teams. I like the idea of the loads of quickness in the the 2-4 spots with Battier, Tmac, and Snyder to compliment Yao's size but relative slowness. You pair Howard with Yao, and you have about the slowest pair of bookends in the league and that puts so much pressure on your 1-3 spots to make up the difference. Also, on Battier wing defense. I think Battier is a better defender against guys like Marion, Diaw, Odom, Dirk, Josh Howard, A. Walker, Haslem, Horry than he is versus your SG types. So Battier's perimeter defensive skill will be utlized, but it is most usefull against the longer quick forwards that previously the Rockets had no answers for, not ultraquick guards. I suspect the quicker Snyder or Head, not Battier, will draw your prime SGs like Wade, Kobe, AI, Terry, etc.
Script from the Battier's chat today -- he is mainly going to play SF. That means TMac will play SG, just like I thought!
So... can Shane Battier play C and PG, too? The Rockets might need him there if Yao or Alston gets hurt.
Battier is a SF who can play PF. There are only 2 valid reasons why he should be our full-time PF. 1. We have nobody else who can play PF better than him. 2. McGrady can't or won't play SG, and Battier is not a SG. For #1, I agree. We have no starting PF material on our roster. That's why I think our next move should be acquiring a starting PF. Unfortunately, that prospect is getting slimmer everyday. For #2, I am still not convinced that this is a good reason. JVG has said when he first came that there was no difference in his system between a SG and a SF. On offense, T-Mac is going to do his things no matter what you label him to be. On defense, if T-Mac and Battier both play SG-SF, Battier will guard whoever requires more energy. So what difference does it make how you label them? The ideal situation would be getting a good starting PF and the starting lineup looks like this: Yao PF Battier McGrady Alston If not, then we'll play Battier at PF and start Snyder at SG. Bring in Hayes and Novak, heck, even Howard. The PF will be manned by committee.
There is no question Battier is the best PF on our team. The Question is are we a better team with Battier,Yao,Tmac,Snyder and Alston starting or Battier,Yao,Tmac, Jho and Alston. To simplify it even more does our team suffer more with Jho on the court or Snyder. I know almost nothing about Snyder and I think we have a better team with Snyder on the court. Which really translates into JHO hurts our team when he is on the court. He is that much of a negative that it is better to play Battier out of position if he can do it and I believe he can. Oh by the way here's a blurb from Battier's website that says a little about his ability to play PF. "With a competitive nature and work ethic second to none, Battier is considered the consummate team player. He prides himself on being fundamentally sound, which he believes is something that's often forgotten in the pros. "Instead of being a small forward or a shooting guard or a power forward…I'm a basketball player. And I make basketball plays."
I am not sure why so many people here are so negative toward JHO. Is he an elite PF in the west? The answer is no. But is he a servicable PF, I would say yes, especially on offensive end. He is not a great one on one defender. But he understands JVG defensive schemes. He has always been disciplined on the defensive end. You don't see him blown his coverage (even though his ability is somewhat limited) On the other hand, just like you said here, Snyder is an unknown. If he demonstrated that he can understand the defensive system here in Rox, I will be first to admit my mistake. But before he proves himself (which I am sure he will have plenty of chances next season), he should not be an automatic starter IMO.
Juwan is not even servicable on the floor at the same time as Yao. Him in combination with Yao is just plain TERRIBLE. He's the worst fit possible. His jumper is the only thing that he can use and it blows hot and cold, and when he is shooting it, it is because his man is laying off him and doubling on Yao. He doesn't spread the floor enough offensively and his eFg is low. He cannot defend anybody. He cannot run fast, he cannot jump, he cannot board. The +/- numbers for our team are negative with him and Yao on the floor together and they are positive for Yao and every other teammate. IF......and I hope that's not the case....but IF he stays on this team, he should only be playing backup minutes at the 5 when Yao is taking a breather on the bench for maybe 6-8 minutes a game because he is too slow, slow, slow to do anything else effectively.
Call me stubborn, I am just not buying that Juwan is the worst PF on the team last year. He did not look clueless like Stro or average one foul per minute like Hayes (don't get me wrong, I really like Hayes, he offers a different dimension when he can manage to stay on the court).
I would like another PF on this team but the problem is JHo doesn't have the athleticism that would upgrade this team, but he buys into a team concept and has something these other guys don't.....a basketball IQ. We need an athletic old school,Rodman type with some offense.I don't know if these guys exist at all.
I agree with you about Howard not being the worst PF on the rocket team, but he sure is the slowest and most unathletic. Combine Howard with a slow footed center like Yao and you have your frontline running in mud.
Sorry ! I am even in doubt about that, because many times Howard takes too many low percentage shots without looking for the open man to pass the ball to. His game is most limited to a static spot up shooter, never playes the traditional Power Forward Position on either ends of the court! As of to-day we dont have a Power Forward on our team. We have role players that we give the title of PF .
Lets take our allstar SG with an ailing back, and have him bang down low as a SF.... Then, lets aquire a potentially allstar SF and have him play PF.... C'mon....Put people in the position in which they can reach their optimum potential... TMAC is a SG, Battier is a SF, Chuck Hayes is a SF... C Ming/Mutumbo....solid PF _____/Novak (to spread the floor) SF Battier/Hayes SG TMAC/Snider/Sura or Head PG Alston/Vspan/JL3 all we need is a PF who can board and defend...can you say Kelvin Cato? Howard/Head for Cato and we're allgood!
Battier will get 20 mpg at the pf slot, Hayes will get 15-20, and Novak should get about 5. Juwan should only get anything left over after that. Battier will get another 10-12 mpg at the sf slot. Yao will play 30 mpg at center, with Deke and Juwan getting the backup minutes. Juwan should be limited to 10 mpg behind Yao with maybe a couple minutes at most playing the PF slot alongside Deke in extreme situations. TMac will get his 35 or so sliding between the 2 and 3 slots. That leaves about 35 mpg to be covered at the SG slot. If Snyder works out, he should get around 20 of those minutes. Then you've got Span and Head to take the rest of those minutes. Really, the keys to this club performing are Snyder and Spanoullis. If those guys come through as rotational players we are fine. Juwan Howard is a backup center, that is all. Backup minutes at the 5 is all we can afford to give him and it is all he is effective at. I would still like to add one more perimeter player for the minimum. Someone like Qyntel Woods would be ideal, with his size and athleticism. I think Snyder is going to surprise us though. And I think there is/are still trade(s) that will go down before we are finished with the roster at the trade deadline.
You are absolutely right about Snyder and V-Span (I will add Novak and JLIII too ), if either of them can emerge to be a quality SG, then Rox will have a lot more flexibility in the rotation. But I still insist you guys are writing off Juwan too easily, but I guess time will tell...
I think the key question is whether the best Rockets line-up is: 1) Yao, Howard, Battier, Tmac and Alston (or another PG) OR 2) Yao, Battier, Tmac, Synder (or another SG) and Alston (or another PG). Against 90% of the teams, #2 is better. #1 is a slow team, with overall a very foot slow 4/5 combination, and merely adequate quickness 1-3. Also, though Howard is a good mid range jump shooter, he doesn't produce easy baskets or convert 3s, so while he isn't a bad individual offensive player, he doesn't make the team more explosive. #2 is a quick team. Yao is still there in the middle, but outside of that you a quicker than average 2, 3 and 4. I think Battier has the reach of Howard and Synder has good size for an SG, so you are losing very little length for a tremendous gain in speed and 3 point range from all non center spots. You have a team that can apply a lot more defensive pressure, and spread the floor hitting 3s all around Yao, that makes it a very explosive team. #2 is also a deeper team in bigs, with Howard playing regular heavy minutes at the back-up 4 and back-up 5 (think McDyess at Det) and Deke/Hayes or maybe even Novak playing spot duty depending on game situations. In sum I value Howard on this team, I just think his best role most games would be back-up PF and back-up C in the 6th or 7th man role, than paired with Yao coming out of the gate. So I think our plan should be for Battier to start 90% of the game. Sure the few teams with a bulky 4 & 5 combination we might want to start Howard (versus the Clips, or versus the Spurs IF one of their centers pan out and Duncan is able to play the 4), but that would be the exception, not the rule. The major cavout to this whole plan is consistency out of the starting 1 & 2. This is what I am most concerned about in the whole roster. If less than two of Alston, Head, Snyder, JL3 or VS prove to be consistent and reliable players--a very real possibility, we might have to scrap the plan and have Howard start. But this would be more a reflection of sucky and erratic guard play that forces Tmac to play there than an endorsement that Howard is the right starting PF for the team.
DS, I think 2 is definitely better. I would much prefer JHo on the floor with the second unit to provide some scoring. Motumbo Howard TMac or Battier I would definitely prefer Howard on the floor with that group. I think Battier is the player that I want complimenting Yao at the 4 spot as much as possible.
Guys, Here is the list of possible PF Rox will be against: KG TD Dirk Lamar Odom Elton Brand Chris Wilox Nene(Martin?) David West Amare (Diaw?) Troy Murphy Paul Gasol Carlos Boozer Kenny Thomas Zach Randolph Brian Scalabrine Nenad Krstic MoT Webber Chris Bosh P.J. Brown (Tyrus Thomas ?) Drew Gooden Rasheed Wallace A.J. Harrington (Jermaine O'Neal?) Charlie Villanueva Shelden Williams Sean May Udonis Haslem Dwight Howard Darius Songaila (Etan Thomas ?) More than half (~17) have height abouve 6'10". Another 4-5 of them weighted above 250 lb. Do you feel Battier can guard these guys successfully? Since he would give 2" and 30 lb against these guys...
