I think you hit the nail on the head. I think we are going to see a lot of lineups with Snyder, TMac, and Batter at the 2,3,4 and when other teams go small, we will sub out Head or Vassy for Snyder and still run TMac and Battier at the 3 and 4 interchangeably as defensive matchups dictate. McGrady was very solid defending Nowitzki a year ago. And obviously Battier is more like Haslem who was very effective defending Dirk. The whole key to Dirk defensively is getting up in his grill when he catches the ball and forcing him to put it on the floor when he is out high. Then you send a little bit of help and cut off his dribble and leave him with the option of taking a tight fade away jumper or getting rid of the basketball. McGrady and Battier both will be able to do that a whole lot more effectively than Yao. The thing that almost all teams try to do to us is to play their center way out high. THey will even substitute players so that they are playing a relatively small man on Yao defensively and fronting him and then bringing that undersized center out high to force Yao out of the paint. So, quickness is really a big key for us when it comes to running our defensive schemes, switching off the screens and helping to cover for the big man playing out high. I really think we are going to see mostly McGrady and Battier up front with Battier maybe even playing the centers like Brad Miller that play out high and leaving Yao to roam the baseline defensively taking the PF or whoever is attempting to play the post. Not only that but obviously on the offensive end if you got Battier in the corner and everybody else around the arc, then obviously Yao is alone in the post with his man. That's when those teams putting little defenders on Yao are busted. That stuff is over in my opinion. They can try it and Yao is going to eat them alive. Especially with McGrady being able to come from the top now that Juwan is out of the picture at the top of the circle. The pick and roll is going to be a lot more clearer, a lot more open. What are teams like Dallas gonna do? Yao fouled out all their big men this year. You take Battier out to the corner and all of a sudden Dirk's got a problem. Either he stands out there blanketing Shane or he has to commit big time to come in and double Yao, leaving Shane wide open for the 3 ball. Phoenix? Are they gonna leave Amare inside to defend Yao one on one? If they do, Amare will average about 18 mpg against us because of foul trouble. Either that or he just has to let Yao go. The only place they can realistically bring the double from is Nash, while Rafer is in the game, and hope that Rafer takes the lower percentage 3 point shot. So, take out Rafer and bring in Luther to take that shot. Or bring in Lucas and run pick and roll with Yao and JLIII. Phoenix is going to come unraveled because they really do not play defense anyways. All they do is try to get their opponent to take a quick outside jump shot. All we got to do is not be baited into that and run the offense and we will drill them into the floor. They can't run up and down when they are having to pick the ball out of the net. We add another shooter or two and teams are going to have some serious problems trying to shut us down. As it stands right now, if Yao, McGrady, and Shane all stay healthy, we are looking at a team that will average 100 ppg, without any further additions to this roster.
with the center he have (that isn't going anywhere) we need some weak side shot blocking and some "tough" boards (even tip outs will do). i know SB can get boards, but can he rise up and get us a "tough rebound," a rebound in traffic? i just don't see that. and i certainly don't see the weak side shot blocking. don't you get it people??? you can't have a finesse C and a finesse PF and expect to win a title. if you do, then your bench player have to be those rough a rugged enforcer types. oh wait, THE ROCKETS DON'T HAVE ONE OUTSIDE OF MUTOMBO WHO IS OLDER THAN DIRT!!!
don't you get it people??? you can't have a finesse C and a finesse PF and expect to win a title. if you do, then your bench player have to be those rough a rugged enforcer types. Worked for us 11 years ago... Shane doesn't need to play exclusively at PF, but even if he does, JVG's defensive philosophy has always been 3 things.... 1. Protect the paint 2. Protect the paint 3. Protect the paint Shane will be fine..
This is our starting line-up as of now: 1.Rafer Alston 2.Tracy McGrady 3.Shane Battier 4.Juwan Howard (like it or not) 5.Yao Ming This isn't about T-Mac and Shane being a 2 or 3. It that they're both swingmen, and Shane is gonna guard the toughest one. Shane at the 4 only works on the Suns and maybe the Mavs. This Battier at the 4 sounds perfect for teams like Spurs, Pacers, Pistons, Raptors, Wolves, Clippers, and Grizzlies, who would circle our game on their calender. Picture Shane Battier guarding Duncan on the low post, double team, swing the ball around, Tony Parker drives, help out D, now we have to double rotate, right back to Duncan inside, easy 2 pts or wide open 3 for Finley, Horry, or Ginobili. Repeat process for 48min. It could work for certain streches but nothing more. I do see him with a Shawn Marion, maybe a Lamar Odom, and Boris Diaw.
i wouldn't call hakeem finesse on defense. and that is what i am talking about. and neither would you. you could put a bum next to hakeem (which we did - chucky brown) and still make it work. when horry played 4, at least robert horry was long enough and athletic enough to 1 - block shots. and 2 - get a tough rebound or a tip out. and 3 - guard some of the best PF ever, malone and barkley. sb/yao for 4/5 may work on offense really well... i am just saying that when we're playing defense, i think we have a problem down low. yao can't get some of those tough rebounds and does get dunked on quite a bit. the jury is still out on what sb can do for us at the 4 in regards to rebounding and defense. he has played mostly sf in his career. if you're not concerned about defense and rebounding, let me be the first to tell you: YOU SHOUD BE!!!!
Let see, the starting PFs in the two finals were Haslem, Dirk, Sheed and Marion. The best teams have 4s than demand quickness over power--this is the trend in the NBA. I'd rather have Battier on any of them the majority of the time than Jawon.
I won't say it isn't a concern, but you are forgetting Tmac as well. Overall a front line of Yao, Battier and Tmac is not small, nor particularly bad at rebounding as a group. You also have to remember with Yao and Howard as your 5 & 4 you lose a lot of boards because of slowness, so I think Battier and Tmac compliment Yao's size and slowness a lot better than Howard and Tmac do. Adding a big guard in there (Snyder/Sura) is another way to increase rebouding. Think of Dallas, they don't have any particularly great rebounders or enforcer types, but they have a team of long and athletic guys who as a group do well on the boards. I won't saw we are like Dallas yet, but putting Battier and Tmac in the forward spots really adds a lot of length and quickness.
Even against Brand and Duncan, Battier is the better defender. Juwan can't handle either one of those guys. They require a double whether Juwan or Shane is guarding them. Since we have to bring a double, who would you prefer scrambling on the switch, Juwan or Shane? It's a no brainer. Even one on one, I'd rather go with Shane by himself fronting Duncan and Brand and forcing tough entry passes. Juwan can do none of that. All he can do is stand behind them and take his punishment.
Duncan only played center cause Dallas went small ball and he is their best player. You don't take out your best player. When Horry is in the game with Duncan, like 2 swingmen, he'll take the better inside presence. If Battier plays the 4, we'll lose defense and rebounding. In the post I don't see him covering anyone. ONLY FOR SMALL BALL and the small ball must be effective. Two teams (Dal & Phx) do not account for a whole season. This new trend is not the Rockets. Unlike Suns and Mavs, we play defense. We don't put our hands up and hope for misses, and we don't spend the day gambling in passing lanes. We contest shots and rebound. And in the post, Juwan is gonna be more effective grabbing rebounds and contesting shots than Shane Battier. Shane is in as a legit perimeter defender to stop dribble penetration and to guard Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Ginobili, Carter, Pierce, Melo, Allen, etc. In truth we're gonna need a PF who is a legit rebounder/shot blocker. 2 dudes to complete the team; Ely and Jeffries.
When Battier played the 4, Gasol was usually in the game at the 5. I don't think opponents will double off of Battier. This is the what I believe the point of having Battier at the 4. Give Yao some space. It should also make it easier for guard penetration if Battier can his man away from the paint. On the defensive side, I expect Battier to box out and Yao and TMac willl have good defensive rebound numbers for their respective positions. I expect the Rockets will have a rebounding edge in most games despite Battier at the 4 due mostly to Yao's rebounding. Battier will also help the rebounding numbers by missing less shots.
Remember also, Gasol had a tremendous here in APG. I think Fratello based his system off of spacing, allowing more time for Battier at the 4. However, that team has more and better shooters, and we have more of a dominant perimeter player. Again, I think battier at the 4 you guys are reading too much into. It's simply for matchups, it's not going to be the ordinary thing.
Battier's a great player at defending the post, by swimming over the offensive players, but with the length of Brand and Duncan, including the mass, if you seriously think that Battier can hold his own better than Juwan, something is wrong, oh so wrong. You are right about them commanding a double team, but fouls will be drawn, I much rather Juwan pick them up than Battier, know what i mean?
No, I don't know what you mean. Why do I want a useless Juwan out there to just "pick up fouls" and get us in the bonus against? That's crazy. I'd rather have Battier out there battling and not picking up fouls. He may give up a layup or two but he's a smart, smart defender. He would be much more effective against those guys than Juwan. In case you haven't noticed, Juwan is not effectively defensively against anybody. If we need a guy out there "picking up fouls" for us, we can sent Rybo out there and let him hound Brand and Duncan. Let's be real here. Neither Battier nor Howard is going to shut players like Duncan, Brand, and Garnett down. Those guys just don't get shut down. But Battier is the best choice we have at this time of playing high IQ basketball and making those guys at least less efficient. Juwan CANNOT do that. And Battier gives us more spacing on the other end for Yao to operate. San Antonio WILL NOT have an answer with their center and Duncan. Duncan is not going to stand out at the arc with Battier. But he will stand out at the FT line with Howard and force him to take a shot with a hand in his grill or drop off the pass to Yao low where Duncan can easily slide down to help Butler or whatever other stiff is defending Yao. Can't you see that? With Battier spotted up in the corner, it clears out all that congestion around Yao. That is very, very, very important. San Antonio want to match up with us by playing Timmy in the middle??? It's time to let it be known that that matchup now favors US. With Yao's development last year and his size, Timmy CANNOT defend him. And Yao is getting smarter on defense. His size alone will be a deterrant to Duncan. If Duncan isn't playing the low post, he is facing up on the short wing, looking for that little 15' bank shot. Battier is going to be the best defender out on the floor with him. He's quicker, more athletic, and his hands are much quicker than Juwan's. It's no contest.
I'll put it like this. Brand and Duncan, we cannot do anything about. Shane is not going to stop them, neither is Juwan. Shane is NOT going to make them even think about changing their game up, neither is Juwan. Why put Shane on Duncan or Brand when he is not going to make an impact, he may play smarter, a little quicker,etc. fact of the matter is he's not going to change their game, why not concentrate on Manu or Mobley,someone Shane can effect. Why waste our best team defender on something he cannot do.
shane > juwan end of story. why would you want juwan playing 4? he proved last year that, when he's on and willing he'll be able to post up 16+pts,8+rbs but when hes off, ever if its a fraction his shots dont go in and he just forces it. he plainly does not contribute with the team's defence and we're still lacking depth just like old man rock stated in his post. its easier said than done in trying to trade jho. even if the rumor about the lakers does happen im not sure if we would be able to get a player significant enough to make us a championship caliber team. we should get players like hayes, head and JLIII chances to see if they can improve and become more than just back ups. rookies always deserve a chance to prove themselves especially if you can avg 23pts in the summer league, but thats just imo. hopefully we can see our team with a healthy season and move on from there, this speculation about SB playing the 4 is pointless. i'm sure the rockets are going to have him switch positions according to the opposing team. with that said, can't wait until 06-07 starts
I really can't see Battier getting big minutes at the 4. As others have already said, maybe for certain matchups, but if he's our starting power forward we're screwed. We need to either start Jho, and bring in someone like Cato or Lorenzen Wright to back up both the 4 and the 5, or we need to make a move to land a starting calibur PF. We are a bad enough rebounding team as is, I don't know why anyone would want to make it even worse by playing Shane at the 4. My ideal lineup PG- Alston/JLIII/VSpan/Head/Sura SG- Snyder/McGrady/Head/Battier/VSpan/Sura SF- McGrady/Battier/Hayes/Novak/Bowen PF- Howard/Cato*/Battier/Hayes/Novak/Bowen C- Yao/Cato*/Deke I'd really like to see Snyder get a chance to start and see if he can develop. If he can become a productive player for us, then it'd probably make up for the whole Rudy Gay debacle.
Dude, what's the alternative? Jho? Old Man Rock is 100% right. Besides, Tracy needs to play the 3, not the 2. I don't want one of our franchise players (who is coming off of back problems) chasing fast 2s around the court. That means Battier plays the 4 (assuming we didn't give up our draft for a bench player).
