That was my thinking, though I doubt Gay would have been the starting PF under any conditions, I expected Swift to be traded for a SG since he was one of the Rocket's few tradable assets.
Well, don't question stats, question the ability to use the correct stats and interpret them. You seem to decribe a situation that Yao drawing double-team on the offensive end will creat opportunity for Battier to grab some offensive boards if he isn't played out wide. Well, why don't we start with the obvious, start with defensive rebounding, start with rebounding when he has an opportunity to? Well, there's stats to measure that. Battier's def reb percentage is 9.8% when he has a chance to, (http://www.82games.com/0506/05MEM9A.HTM). Haslem? 19.1%. So your argument is thrown out of the window. Or do you suggest we re-develop Battier in order for him to start at the 4 for us? Any more theories?
Can you see a starting lineup as this for 70% of time Yao (??) (JHo) or trade (??) Battier TMac Rafer On offensive end, that's how TMac plays anyway. On defensive end, Battier gets the better attacking wing man, TMac gets the other; If we can't get anyone better than JHo, then when facing a team like Dallas, another line up can be: (30% of the time) Yao Battier TMac Snyder Rafer.
Great, now we have 3 undersized power forwards: Battier, Howard, and Hayes. Let's get Corliss Williamson and re-sign Weatherspoon while we're at it. And please, no more talk about Brian Cook. We need another POST player to play along with/behind Yao, to matchup against bigger lineups.
I guess we'll have to wait until they finish all the moves to make sense what they are thinking. Right now, I'd rather have Tmac at 2 than Battier starting at 4.
Good post OMR, I totally agree. I see Battier playing the 2,3 and 4. But I see him playing the 4 a lot on the Rockets. It allows for better spacing offensively and with the way the NBA is going with quicker PFs, Battier seems like a natural fit there. The landscape of the NBA is changing. Teams are "sizing down" on some positions. It is more about quickness than it is about strength. Yao, Battier and Tmac are our frontline.
Actually, I'll bet Chuck Hayes takes up at least 20-25 minutes at the 4 spot. Battier will get his 30+ minutes and play whatever position they need him to play. I doubt he plays more than 1/3 of his minutes at the 4. Juwan, if he's not a goner, will probably take up 15-20 minutes... perhaps more at the start of the season, but decreasing as the season goes along. As for Battier's rebounding... even while playing 1/3 of his minutes at the 4 and being outrebounded individually whether he plays the 3 or the 4, the Grizzlies rebounds better overall with Shane on the floor (at whatever position he plays) then with him sitting. So I doubt rebounding is that much of a concern.
I agree that Battier is best at 3 and that is frustrating to me. But on the Memphis stats -- I don't believe those numbers are adjusted for who he's replacing: Gasol & Wright (when Gasol plays C) who are far and away the two best board men on the Griz roster. I think when you replace a poor rebounder like Juwan Howard with Battier the numbers won't drop off nearly as much as they did in Memphis.
Battier can fill the role some of the time, not most of it. Imagine him against the real power forwards of the west: Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki, and Amare (when he is healthy).
How did a rail thin Robert Horry do as a PF ? Oh yeah, he was the starter on the Rockets championship team. Is Udonis Haslem all that big? DD
Why all the Juwan hating? Why would we waive him? I'm sorry, but he's not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. He's not by any means an elite PF but there are definitely worse 4's in the league. What's bad is his contract. He does not play defense, but he was essentially our best scoring option when Tmac and Yao were out last year. Why not bring him off the bench as a scoring option? I think in most games Battier will be the starting 4 because of his D and ability to spread the defense for Yao. Tmac will start at 3. Now the Rockets need to make some moves to strengthen the bench(and the starting 2). Snyder's not going to cut it. Maybe if Sura comes back to his 2003 form, then we seek PF help. If not, priority=SG.
Horry generally played 3 for the Rockets (4s were Otis Thorpe and Chucky Brown) and besides he's 6'11.
Ok, let's take a step back. The things that most of us agree on are the follwoing: Battier and TMac will start together; Rafer and Yao will be other two starters; On defensive end, TMac most likely can't guard SG because of his back; On defensive end, Battier can guard all SF, some tall SG, some soft and or weak PF; On offensive end, TMac controls the ball most of the time (who cares if he is SG/SF); On offensive end, Battier most likely will on the perimeter and plays off Yao and TMac; So it seems pretty simply now -- Rox will have 4 starters determined for next season: Rafer, TMac, Battier, Yao. Depends on the opponent, the other starter will be either Snyder or JHo (or another PF from trade, signing);
This makes more sense, but is TMac physically up to this role, that is the real question? Until we see the Rocket's final moves, it is almost impossible to picture a starting lineup.
I understand your logic completely but I think what you have to ask yourself is there any situation where JHO would better at the PF spot than Battier. I can only think of 1 and that is when both TMac and Yao are on the bench. Then I can see the benefit albeit slight of having at the 4 and battier at the 3, that assuming Mutombo are some other center is on the floor. And if you want break it down another way, which PF would JHO be better at Guarding than Battier. My answer is none. SO the only reason Juwan should take Battier's minutes is when we need another offensive threat because Tmac and Yao are on the bench. Now Chucky Hayes is another story.
Very well put. I think some of us are weary that we don't have the "traditional" stud pf thats 6'10 240. However, we can fill the void by doing a PF by committee depending obn Lets pretend JHO is out of the equation just to make things more simple. Battier starts at the 4 to spread the floor and do a decent job at everything and we have Chuck Hayes the ultimate hustler to give a different look with a more gritty style of play and grab all the loose boards, and then you have Novak to throw in there to spread the floor and he'll hopefully knock down the 3 and keep the opposing 4 honest by having to come out and guard him. And in key situations I can see T-mac taking the role of guarding the other teams opposing 4 if he is a finesse player i.e Dirk, Gasol, Odom, Rashard Lewis, KG etc. Overall, if we are able to add that traditional 4 that can play significant minutes it would be gravy on top. However, I am content on going into the season with the moves we have made thus far and doing a PF by committee and finding out what works depending on what the other team throws out there.
