The problem with Battier at the PF position full time is that he is not a good rebounder. When you look at Shawn marion he always was a good rebounder, even when he was playing the small foward position.
He didn't average 8 reb per 48 at the four; he did that at the three while playing less than 1/3 of the game at the four. If Battier plays exclusively out of the perimeter to give Yao space, then his numbers may or may not improve. But assuming he is playing along the baseline or around the FT line, then he will be around the basket more often and will have plenty of opportunities to grab weakside boards.
Shawn Marion has unbelievable athleticism to make up for his lack of size, something Battier does not have. I don't mind seeing Battier at PF just because I don't want TMac back at SG. But I won't be convinced that Battier can battle Duncan, KG, Brand, Amare, Gasol, JO, Bosh, etc...night in and night out until I see it. I would like to add a stronger more athletic PF like Ely or Wilcox to our rotation.
This is what i have a problem with. Didn't Battier say he is going to gaurd the other teams best wing player?http://clutchfans.net/news/1349/battier_expects_to_guard_the_best/ Well if he does say gaurd ray allen that would switch tracy over to gaurding the PF and Kirk(i think he will be our starting 2) the SF. Am i right or not? I dont have a problem with him starting at the 4 but then we need an improvement at the 2 then. I dont like a rotation of Kirk and Luther.
swift was brought in primarily to place a shotblocker next to yao. battier will be that shotblocker, the major differences being he averages over 30mins per game and isn't injury-prone, but most importantly he'll stay on the floor.
There is no way Gay could play the four anytime too soon. He may be listed at 220, but look at him: they "eye" test clearly shows that Battier is more developed physically, with broader shoulders and thicker legs, and he plays more physically against the post. Gay may be longer, but he does not have a solid base, only played the four in college because he could not handle the ball well on the perimeter, and averaged less than four rebounds per game as a freshman and five as a sophomore. Once Gay develops a little more strength and some better ball-handling skills, he could easily become an Antoine Walker, younger Donyell Marshall, or maybe be a Robert Horry-type. But those are all big "ifs" and will not be answered for several more years.
Not to change the subject, but why would we get a 5.9m TE for trading juwan + head for mihm + cook? Do they take the outgoing contracts - incoming contracts of the entire contract lengths, or just the initial year? - thanks in advance P.S. Completely agree with you Old Man. We could use a bigger, more physical 4/5 backup, but i think Battier will be a solid starter at 4.
05-06, http://www.82games.com/0506/05MEM9C.HTM 04-05, http://www.82games.com/04MEM7C.HTM so , it's a bit over 8 and significantly out rebounded by opponents. Marion and Haslem, you say? 13 and 12.3, both out rebound opponents. Oh, while you are looking at those stats, don't overlook the fact that Memphis was worse off playing Battier at the 4 in the last 2 seasons. It's better for both Battier and his team to play the SF position.
Everyone is missing the main point on why Battier won't be the starting PF. Can he play PF better than Juwan? Yes. Can he play PF better than 1/2 the starting PF's in the league? Probably. But playing him at PF first negates his best talent. Shane Battier is an elite perimeter defender. He is one of the 5 best defensive SF's in the NBA (with Bowen, Artest, Kirilenko, and Marion). An analogous situation would be found in Sacramento. Shareef Abdur-Rahim is a terrible defender at the 4. He is basically a slightly more athletic version of Juwan Howard. Artest could do everything at the 4 that Abdur-Rahim can do and defend better. But do you play Artest at the 4 just to get Abdur-Rahim off the floor? Not under normal circumstances. Artest (and Battier) brings you so much more on the perimeter that they should play there. Carroll Dawson's and Tracy McGrady's words should never be taken as meaning anything in coaching decisions. Let them do their jobs and let Van Gundy do the coaching.
Great post. And I totally agree that we need a backup post defender. Deke is one of the all-time greatest at what he does...but his age really started to show last season.
From our side, we use the TE to acquire Mihm and then we are trading Howard's and Head's salaries for Brian Cook's. The difference is a new TE of approximately $5.9 with a whole year to use it. We ought to do this deal if LA wants to do it. Even if they threw in another player making it a 2 for 3 swap, as long as it was Vujacic or somebody like that with a salary around $1 then we get back a larger TE than what we have now and another year to use it. Personally, if we could pull some trades and increase that TE up to about $7-$8, we could acquire a pretty attractive piece with that thing. Not to mention, Mihm and Cook are on expiring deals. Or if we take Mihm and Aaron Mckie, we still get a new trade exception and now we've got a considerable amount of money in expirings that we could parlay into a nice piece at the trade deadline from some team looking to dump payroll.
Well, technically Battier said he would defend the opponent's best offensive player and I take that to mean best frontcourt player, but I think there are some options here. McGrady could always slide to the two in the event that we need Battier defending a two, then Howard could start at the four. If we are playing a team with two good wings, let's say the Nets, then that would be the setup with Snyder giving minutes on Carter when McGrady slides to the three and Battier to the four. If we have L.A., then Battier can defend Kobe, McGrady can take Odom, while Howard can give us minutes on Odom or Radmonovic, then Snyder can take Kobe when Battier slides down to defend Odom and we leave McGrady on Radmonovic or Walton. If it's Dallas, we can use Battier on Dirk, McGrady or Snyder on Howard or Stackhouse, Head/Snyder on Terry when he plays the two, but McGrady against whatever other slugs they will through out at the two. Against San Antonio, Snyder and Head will draw Ginobli, McGrady will get Barry and Bowen, and Battier should get Finley, Horry, or one of their other fours. Technically, Battier could even take Ginobl if Head and Snyder can handle Bowen or Barry, and McGrady could take Horry, Williams, or Bonner. There are a ton of options here and we have to remember that McGrady is a very long 6'8" plus, which means he can defend a four who is not as big and physical. We could have a hard time against Brand, Bosh, Jermaine O'Neal, Howard, or even Boozer, but that's when we would play Howard, Hayes, and maybe even another post-defender available for the remaininig MLE.
i think that Battier will have his time about equally split between the 3 and 4. i don't think that TMac will be the new starting 2. also, TMac seems to be looking more forward to Battier's defense as a 4 then as a swingman, although Battier states that he'll be defending TMac's man so that he can go for 50. hmmm...something sounds off.
You just decribed spot duty, rather than starting role. Two problems with him starting at 4: 1) rebounding. 2) It's not his best strength as weslinder also pointed out.
Interesting stats, but like all stats they are context-less. Numbers don't understand basketball nor do they reflect what happens on the court, people do. There is one fundamental assumption here: Memphis was built around Batter as a perimeter player, with Gasol the post scorer and rebounder. When Battier is at the three, he is spaced too far away from the basket to get much off the glass, but when you take Gasol out of the game and replace him with Battier, what do you have? Tsakalidis or Wright at the five with Battier at the four? That's an awful lineup--size, strength, and rebounding wise--and that's not what we are going to do. If Battier is in the paint, then Yao will draw doubles and that means Battier will have no one boxing him out in the paint. That's why I suggested his rebounding improvement would be negligible the more we play him away from the basket, but better when he is in the paint. Now, let's look at Miami and Phoenix. Did you ever watch Haslem in college? Very poor rebounder with little elevation at the earlier stages, but he dropped a ton of weight, worked on rebound positioning, and the Miami staff kept keeps him in the paint a ton for rebounding purposes. Haslem is not a natural rebounder, but he is placed around the basket often as a four, even on the offensive end (ever see Haslem spotting up for a three?), and his role in the offense is hitting mid-range (9-15 ft) baseline and FT line jumpers and to gather offensive boards. And Phoenix? Well, first of all, Marion is a phenomenal natural rebounder with a great wingspan and reach. He plays more often on the perimeter offensively and does defend scoring wings regularly, but their system includes so much spacing and slashing offensively that everyone is cleared out of the paint save for the man in iso. This means Marion can break to the basket very easily on the offensive end. Defensively, well, that's the reason why Marion is one of the top rebounders and defenders in this league. No objection from me on that point.
I think Battier could easily be our starting PF (he is better than Howard, obviously), but I think we'll see someone brought in via trade that will at least limit the minutes Battier gets at PF to let him play more at SF. We've still got the bigger TE, and I'm sure the Rockets front office is exploring all the possibilities with that. Brian Cook would definitely be nice...a combination of him, Battier, and Hayes would pretty much cover all the bases at PF for us. Head is really our only tradeable asset right now...but I don't think the Rockets will trade him if the other team doesn't take on Juwan as well. Based on the Rockets strategy this offseason of getting under-the-radar type guys that are salary-effiicient, I wouldn't be surprised to see Juwan waived if we can't deal him. We are too limited on roster space right now, and if we're going to bring in a PF with the TE someone has to go. We definitely have a lot of flexibility now with Battier on board...we can go small and quick to compete with teams like Pheonix and Dallas by putting him at PF and Tracy at SF; or go big to compete with San Antonio by having Tracy at SG and Battier at SF. Now it's just time to finish off the offseason by getting a PF in here somehow and losing Juwan. I'd still like to see Richie Frahm brought back too if we have space, making the team look like this to start the season: C: Yao / Mutumbo PF: Battier / [Trade: Cook or other] / Hayes SF: Mcgrady / (Battier) / Novak SG: Snyder / (Mcgrady) / Head / Frahm (IR) PG: Alston / JL3 / Spanoulis / Sura (IR) Obviously if the new PF is more of a starter than Snyder then we shift Battier to SF and Mcgrady to SG.
Okay, then what's the answer? McGrady will not play regularly at the two and if Batter is not going to play the four, who will? Do you think Battier will come off the bench with Howard starting? I am just trying to make sense out of what the coaches are thinking, because nothing has really come out yet. But we do know tht McGrady does not want to play the two, while Battier will be a starter for us. That leaves him where? At the two?
