Ha ha ha!!! Funny! Now explain to me how KT and CAT are able to get assist if Steve has the ball in his hands doing ISOs? Huh? You said... "Team assists have nothing to do with what Francis did last game." Ha ha ha! That's funny! I say they do (the last two games). Score? Big whup! We know he can score!!!! Is he setting his team up, yes or no?!?! That's the difference! Steve responsiblity is NOT JUST to SCORE! He has to run the team! Now, I'm not saying that him scoring 20, 30, or 40 is bad! But if he has 30 points and the rest of his team have 5, 0, 1, 3, 6, etc... That's bad!!! The last two games were not like that. But, last year, and the year before it was lopsided like that (well, not Mobley. He seemd to always find his shot). What!?! I metioned the pick-and-roll in regards to getting your shot versus the ISO. I was talking about the ISO vs the pick-and-role in regards to scoring. Go back and read what I said...you jumbled what I said together in regards to assist. I wasn't talkiing about that! Note: Even though the pick-and-roll does have uses for assist. It's obvious you wont understand that. Or do you? I guarantee you that Steve will utilize the pick-and-roll to get assist the longer his career progresses. It will be more effective than the ISO, that's for sure. So, the pick-and-roll does have an effect on assist. But that wasn't my point in my original post. Ha! You said it! "I do believe the team is passing the ball around more..." Finnally! At least you noticed that! Also, explain to me what "all season long" means? Six games? Heh... My opinion of his play has NOT changed. I'm not on the "sunshine" trip! My very first post said: DEFENSE! This last game had defense, compared to the rest. Steve's game was good the last two. Remember. Good doesn't equal scoring a lot of points. He's played better the last TWO games. But, not at the expense of the team. The other wins sucked! Again, two wins that had high team assists. That means that Steve (and Cat) do not have the ball in their hands all game long. Either Steve is setting someone up, or his teammates are. Either way, he's not in ISO all the time! Get it!? If he does, he better have 10 assists. If not, then the team must have high assist. One or the other. That's unless you think that Steve will score 80 points all by himself. By the way. Steve does have a responsibility to play defense too. Please don't say that only his teammates must play defense. Also, It seems to me that you think it's ok for Francis to go ISOs and not play defense as long as Steve has a high scoring game; as long as Steve has 30-40 points then it's ok with you, right? That's what it SEEMS like you are saying. Are you? You said that Steve has been playing "great" like this "all season long." "Great" like what? Scoring alone? I think we know that Steve is a great scoring guard. Duh! But that's not what winning as a team is all about. This is the first time in Steve's carreer that he has shown team play and offensive setups. In the past, he was pure ISO. This is not the case in the last two games.
In terms of getting his team involved instead of only scoring, probably. If anyone knows how to develop an all-around game, it's Jordan. He was the master at playing both ends of the court.
I think what Jeff was taking about was both "happy-happy-joy-joy" excitement of Steve's play, and a foreshadow into the future. I agree that someday, Steve will be "great." That's obvious. I get the same feeling when I see Yao play. There's just something about the way they play that makes you see what they *can* become.
Stevie is obviously the real deal....let's just hope they don't wear him out by playing him too many minutes.
I think one of the best comparisons we can use for Francis is Hakeem. In the late 80s, we missed the playoffs once or twice and when we did get there, we lost in the 1st round 3 years in a row. At that time, everyone knew Hakeem was great. Despite his greatness, the question arose about whether he was great enough to take his team to the promiseland or was he just good enough to get his team to the playoffs then fail? Steve is in the same situation right now. Is he great enough to get us to the playoffs? Right now, Id say yes. Is he great enough to get us out of the 1st round? We dont know right now. However, my hunch is, no. Is he great enough to lead us to a title? IMO, no way. I say all this because, although Hakeem was great, he didnt become a legend until he altered his already "great" game to make the teamates around him better. Steve is already great. But hes going to have to take that next step towards legendary status if he wants to obtain the ultimate goal of winning a ring. Just like Hakeem did. That next step is doing what all legendary players do. MAKE YOUR TEAMATES BETTER BY YOUR PLAY.
Nice to read a quality thread in the Rga- Steve has exploded this year no doubt I hope with all the big dunks he doesn't reinjure his foot or tear up his knees (ie) Vince. A permanent move to the 2 guard would be interesting...
DavidS, This thread and my post were regard to Steve's play. I stated in my previous posts that the Rocks are passing more and better. However, my argument is that the improved play has nothing to do with Steve's play and that Steve has played consistently so far this season with the exception of game 1. According to Codells Analysis, Steve touches the ball between 80-90 times a game or every play that he is in the game. When a person touches the ball, he can do one of three things. Shoot the ball, pass the ball, or turn the ball over. From the first 6 games, Steve has shot the ball 28,12,23,22,19, and 22 times. So all the other times he either passed ball or turned the ball over. Steve's turnover high is 7 which was against Seattle but that was also his high in assists which was 9. So the rest of the time, Steve passed the ball which is about 60+ times a game. Of the passes, steve averages about 5-6 assists which was what he got in the last two games. One thing Steve has done better the last two games is limiting his turnovers. I give you that. So how is steve passing the ball more or better. He is not. The improved team play you noticed is not because of improved play by steve but from his teammates who are passing the ball more and not shooting as soon as he passes it their way. As I stated earlier, I believe to improved passing and assists numbers has more to do with Cat and KT and players moving without the ball. My frustration is that some posters are riding his jock now that the team is playing better team ball even though it has little to do with him. Steve has been playing at the same level all season long and not just the last two games.
Rockbox, There is one aspect of the game that most people wont accept. This seems contradictory ...But, here it goes. I know that we've heard of the stat: assist/turn over ratio, right? Well, the last three years the one thing that I wanted to watch wasn't his assist/turn over ratio, but his assist "attempts" inside the paint either to a cutting player or a drop off pass to a spot up shooter. Now, whether or not this was a turn-over or an assist, it wasn't important to me. All I cared about was that he was "trying" to complete the assist and get his teammates involved. So, when you show me stats, it really doesn't explain what actually happened per assist attempt (last few games). But when you watch the game you can see what is/and isn't being done. What I HATE is ISO, ISO, ISO, turnover! Now that's drives me crazy! The last two games Steve actually made the assists to a player that was in a good spot to make the shot (make your teammates better). So, that type of play really doesn't show up on stats. It is an intangible. Now, don't think that I want Francis to become a Stockton or Magic. He wont. But he can become a Isiah/Jordan type passer. So, the last two games the passes that he did make were better than ever before. Now we still must not forget defense. In reality, we should have lost the last game. It was the defense that saved our butts! Not Steve's great last shot. Our shooting % was average. The GS game was the better one over-all. Some defense and good offense. The Portland game we had average offense, but great defense! Remember how we were down, but when we turned up the defense we started to gain the lead? Anyways... It just seems like the Portland game was the "best thing since sliced bread" only because Francis made that last shot off the glass. Remember, I wasn't one of the ones that was "jumping on the Steve bandwagon" just because of this game. You say that Steve has being playing the same "all season long." I agree, which is NOT a compliment. A lot of the same we've seen last year. But, I caveat that with: He's improving his team play. And both he and his team (Mobley, Griff, Yao, KT, etc.. ) are playing defense. I know you think that he's a God, but the team will need to be more involved in the playoffs. Else, we'll just go home with our tails between our butt. So, when you say, "So how is steve passing the ball more or better. He is not." I say, HE IS! BETTER, SMARTER! It's all about decision making. Especially in the last few minutes of a game. And none of this is tied to wins either.
Without Francis, the Rockets would be 0-6. Of course, I'm still holding out until these guys beat a team with at least a .500 record. If they get to 10-6 or even 10-8 I'll believe this team is playoff bound.
Well I am not sure if Hardaway was special, but for a few seasons in Miami he was almost at the superstar level with Mourning. I remember him going off in several playoff games. You are right about us jumping the gun on Francis being Great, but wouldn't you rather the glass be half full, instead of half empty?
Nov 15 Fri @ Phoenix 9:30 pm Ch.51 ESPN,RSNP (Very Winnable, they barely got past Denver) - WIN 17 Sun @ L.A. Lakers 8:30 pm Ch.51 DTV (Shaq may be back, but he will be Rusty, just like the rest of the team.) - WIN 19 Tue Cleveland 7:30 pm -- DTV (Another must win for the playoffs - beatable team.) - WIN 21 Thu @ Dallas 6:30 pm -- TNT (Tough playoff measuring game) - ??? 22 Fri Washington 7:30 pm -- DTV (Tough Game back to back- can win) - ??? 24 Sun @ L.A. Clippers 2:30 pm Ch.51 Telemundo (must win) - WIN 26 Tue @ Portland 9:00 pm Ch.51 -- (must win) - WIN 27 Wed @ Golden State 9:30 pm Ch.51 DTV (another must win for the playoffs - back to back on the road.) - WIN 29 Fri @ Seattle 9:30 pm Ch.51 ESPN,RSNP (tough game - 3rd in 4 nights - need to pay them back) - ??? Dec 1 Sun @ Sacramento 8:00 pm Ch.51 DTV (tough but winnable) - ??? 3 Tue San Antonio 7:30 pm -- DTV (tough but winnable) - ??? 6 Fri @ New Orleans 7:30 pm Ch.51 DTV (tough but winnable) - ??? I would say out of the next 12 games, we can go 8-4. I am predicting at least 10-6 by Dec 7th. 6 are must wins (G.S./Portland/Lakers/Cleveland/Phoenix/Cliipers) that we should get. At least 5-1. 2 are versus New Orleans/Washington - at least 1-1 versus these two. 4 are versus Dallas/Seattle/San Antonio/Sacramento - these are tough games, that we need to win to show that we can compete and make it to the playoffs. I say we go at least 2-2. Beat Seattle and San Antonio. I think we can beat Dallas also.
I don't know what you guys are talking about: FRANCIS SUCKS!!! hehe, just kidding, bet I got someone real riled up right there for at least half a second... but o god... I hope I didn't just jinx something, somehow? Anyways, the one thing I'm afraid of is something a few people have brought up: injuries. He's been playing out there looking a lot like he could get hurt. I guess he's not as vulnerable as say Iverson has always looked. People said the same thing about Jordan in some of his mid to later years too, though, from what I remember, and he hardly missed a freakin game... I'm just praying for the best.
Rockbox, read the Rudy/Franchise chron article that's up, and you'll realize where you're wrong. I'll sum it up. The Rockets don't care about Asst/TO ration. They count "correct decisions". This is a much better stat to keep. Sometimes, the better pass doesn't lead to an assist. Like if Cato was open at the top of the key, Francis had the ball, and he's being double teamed. Rice is setting up in the post. Francis throws it to Rice, and Rice passes it out. It was the right decision, because giving Cato the ball at the top of the key is not a good pass. He can't hit it, not enough range, and he's nto a good passer of the ball. So, even if Rice turns it over, or misses, it was the correct decision. According to Rockets' staff, these "correct decisions" are WAY up for Francis this year.
There is no doubt in my mind that steve will be one of the 50 greatest when he retires.....showin up like he did against the blazers when the rocks were down showed true leadership. He single handedly brought us back in the game. Steve Francis is somethin special, i think he was worth dickerson, harrington, and massenburg dont you?
ChenZhen just come on with the truth you and your boy Yetti dont' like Steve. Just say it you want Yao to be the star of this team , it aint gonna happen. Yao can't jump,he's not blocking shot's, and last but not least he can't take over a game with his offense,hell can't even out rebound Steve.
Francis is becoming unbelievable, the way he picked up his game in the 4th quarter was just amazing. By the way, I just joined M A S H!!!
What the hell?? Please read through all of my posts dumbass before you say these kinds of things...Steve is actually my favorite NBA player believe it or not! Yes I get really upset when he makes boneheaded mistakes, does that mean I hate him? What's Yao got to do with anything? Wait, it must be my handle here that made you say that. Its him sharing the damn ball and playing as a team was my problem!
I understand all that. My point is that I think Francis was making the right decisions in all the games this season except for the first one and the improvement in the offense is in the secondary passes that are coming from KT, Mobley, and maybe Griffin and the movement away from the ball.
