Ways to get better players

and what if adam silver catch you tanking and gets you collangeloed?
@steddinotayto
@Williamson
@Jontro
@Bobbythegreat

 

awesome

 

awesome

 

Not sure why anyone Allstar level would come here for free agency, and Wall is taking up most of our open cap space. Our veterans have proven impossible to trade so we would have to take the chance on trading young for young or young for a veteran star.

The reason the draft is a unique strategy is because it is one of the best ways to get ascending talent that can change a franchise's fortunes completely.

Harden trades and Tmac trades have spoiled us into irrationality on how simple it is to build a contender I think.

Tanking for 2 years is hardly too much to ask. We've done it for one year and now people are desperate to deny the value of the draft.

I doubt any of the instant gratification fans here watched the Astros tank for 5 years after 10 years on the mediocrity treadmill.

Is Green that next top 10 NBA player? Porter? Alpie? I'd say no, why not try to find another transcendental player to add to those guys? Doesn't sound that scary to me.

The goal is to find a franchise player, not to be the 2011 Kevin Martin, Goran Dragic, Luis Scola play in team.

 

We actually had in the last few years the number 8th selections from 2011, 2014 and 2016.

Brandon Knight, Nik Stauskas (for a few minutes) and Marquese Chriss.

 

They did that after like 5-6 years. Our worse case is 3 full seasons.

 

The other side of the coin that I think people miss is wrapping up salary long term in a potential bust....

Everybody pines for that high draft pick - but if that guy turns out to be a bust... that can screw yourself for years to come... If you draft Kwame Brown and wrap up #1 pick money in an unproven youngster for the next 4+ years who doesnt pan out - yikes! Not only do you wrap up the salary - but also the time trying to develop the guy, efforts to 'build around him,' etc....

There are some guys that you know will be gold (Bron) but most is a crapshoot... maybe you get Bron - but maybe you get Kwame... maybe you get DWade - but maybe you get Darko.... and maybe you get Melo - who's just enough of a talent tease that you wrap up the next decade trying to build around him...

Getting talent from the draft is obviously a huge goal... i just think I'd rather put the majority of my efforts and assets into proven commodities - and treat the draft like lotto tickets. Most railed about our years on the 'treadmill of mediocrity' - but we coulda drafted Kawhi - with far less risk than had we tanked and got Derrick Williams (#2) or Kanter (#3) or Tristan Thomas (#4).... or maybe we coulda got really lucky and have been wrapped up in the crazy that is Kyrie for 4+ years... lol

 

Or trade for up and coming star.

Like Morey did to acquire Harden and before that, Lowery.

 

It would be nice to trade a package like Lamb, 2 mediocre picks, borderline All-star for a guy right before he ascends to a MVP. Not mocking the idea, but who are players that are available for that kind of package? If we give up too much then we lose our ability to build around them. That's super critical, otherwise we just become a team with a great player that's not going anywhere who gets frustrated and leaves (could happen to a player we draft too! -- but we don't lose any trade assets that would be needed to build around him either). If the player we trade for doesn't turn into a top 10 player (at worst) then we really are going to struggle building around them. All things revolves around getting a top 10 player and going from there, which might be where my debate with anyone breaks down. I personally (which doesn't mean squat) don't think we have enough high level assets to get a top tier player and build around him via trades, thanks to the worst trade in our franchise history - CP3 for Westbrook

Assuming the team trading their star will likely fully rebuild, our top trade assets are: The next 2 first round picks we own, Sengun, Green (despite Green's slow start, he still has a lot of trade value to a team going into rebuild -- including us)
Next Tier: our firsts from the 24-27 drafts (incl hou/nets/okc swaps), Josh, Garuba, KMJ, KPJ
Next tier: Wood, Tate, other first round picks

Assuming they want to retool like Rockets did: Wood, Sengun
Next Tier: Tate, Gordon, firsts, KMJ, Brooks

After we trade whatever package for said player, how does our best trade package look for the group around that guy? Is the group remaining good enough?

Which teams have the "next harden"?

The only team I can think of that is close to the OKC situation where they will have salary issues because they are paying too many people too much is Denver? MPJ? But, his back is a huge concern. Heat: Herro or Bam? They're contending and not cheap so that's highly unlikely. ATL with Cam or Hunter? Not interested unless for a bargain and not expecting them to turn into a top 15 player. Cleveland with Garland or Sexton? Garland is interesting.

Other teams looking to pivot? Indiana? None of those guys .Sactown? Fox? He isn't a bad one, but I don't think it's worth competing with what others would likely offer. Spurs? Murray? He is def an interesting one to me. I think he continues to improve while being kind of lost in the "spurs" system as opposed to his numbers being inflated by a system. He's certainly not the "next Harden" but he could help the rebuild if we get a great deal for him.

I can't really think of a player ready to ascend into top top tier status if they were just traded to a team like Rockets. Harden is the exception to every rule there is, but is used in every comparison by many people:"Harden started his career on the bench and look at him." "Harden isn't the most athletic person, look at him." "Harden wasn't that great his first year, look at him." "Rockets traded scraps for Harden and competed for a ring." If we don't land that star and are hoping to just keep trading each player for marginal improvement then what's the point of building culture if the players are treated like assets. That was a major concern of Morey before the Harden trade. The Westbrook trade limited our assets, so we need each move to be a noticable improvement if we are to go that route. I can see moves that puts us into first or second round playoff contention, but I can't see moves beyond that putting us into title contenders. I'm not closed-minded that there isn't a path, even though I probably come off as though I am.

 

Damn that was a long post. I usually try to keep it short lol

 

Could have boiled it down to the Harden trade is unlikely to happen again anytime soon in the NBA. Much less to the same franchise's benefit. Insightful post though.

 

Go after All Star caliber players that want away from their franchises.

There are more than we think.

 

So is Wood "Lowry" or "Kevin Martin"?

 

He is Christian Wood.

 

Sometimes you should plan around the parameters..... We lost our franchise player last season for picks.... we got lucky with the draft odds in 2021.... and we have a two season window where we have our picks outright. Seems like things are lining up for an actual rebuild.

Of course it's not fool proof and not without risks, but I just view as more prudent than competing and seeing where things go. I don't view Wood as someone like KAT or AD.

 

He maybe the headliner in a trade for an actual franchise player, aka a "lowry" or kevin martin".

 

Rather have Christian Wood.

 

Than actual franchise player....?