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Watson First In Passing Yards Second In Passer Rating

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by pgabriel, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro
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    Outstanding. I can't believe this guy is in a Texans jersey
     
    clos4life, King1, gatsby and 2 others like this.
  2. Fulgore

    Fulgore Member

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    Took 15 yrs to get one now we got him. Now we need everything else.
     
  3. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    He did this without Hopkins. He did this without a consistent running game.

    Did our OC do a good job?

    Is TJ Yates a keeper?
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Let's get him a real coach and GM
     
    clos4life and EddieWasSnubbed like this.
  5. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Sad part is no matter how many stats anyone posts and how much there should be unanimous support for Watson as the franchise QB for the Houston Texans you will have a pocket of old schoolers from GRIDIRON TEXAS who will blurt out the W/L record as some sort of admonishment to Watson. Clueless and incompetent to how wins are truly accumulated on an NFL football team. They avoid all the come from behind games that Deshaun has been a part of and has done everything individually to win - except play free safety his damn self. These poor guys have been beaten down so badly by the Oilers and then by 20 years of mediocrity at best by the Texans that I honestly feel they can no longer enjoy the sport and more so the exceptional play from Watson. There will ALWAYS be some sort of negativity. I wonder if they would find any joy from a Super Bowl win even - so used to just being mad and grumpy!

    Lucky for most Texan fans thats just a minority opinion - that a traditional pocket passer is not running things (lol) or that the amount of money Watson makes is also a stain on his play. Beautiful thing is the economics of football (and pro sports in general) will produce another one of these "he isnt good enough to earn that much money" player(s) fairly soon or at least when this pandemic is behind us and a sense of normalcy returns to society and the national economy. Until then you'll get those "no QB has ever won anything making 15% of the cap" guys trying to convince themselves that Watson is bad for the team and all you can really do is shrug, smile and say "ok" - how do you bring hope to the hopeless?
     
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  6. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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  7. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Watson is doing this with the worst running game in the league.

    That’s a very telling stat.
     
    GradyMcTracy and Hey Now! like this.
  8. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    aint that the sad truth.

    For years all we needed was a QB.
    Now all we have is a QB.
     
  9. Trader_Jorge

    Trader_Jorge King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Let's use free agent dollars to bring in some talent on offense (WR, RB), and then trade our defensive assets for more young talent on offense and just enjoy run-n-shoot style 50 to 45 games for the next 3 years. Will it win us a Super Bowl? Probably not. But we weren't going to win one anyway. At least we'll have fun!
     
  10. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    What free agent dollars? That’s one of the biggest problems.
     
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  11. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    The ironic part about all of the knocking pocket passers is, Deshaun made the biggest strides of his career from the pocket and put up huge numbers.
    Quarterbacks will always be judged by what they can do throwing the ball, period. Scrambling is just icing on the cake.
    Who do you take Rodgers (can run but better passer) or Vick?
    Or new age Watson (can run but better passer) or Lamar?

    The answer is easy.
     
    jay_09 likes this.
  12. conquistador#11

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    Trade him for some picks now, rebuild the rebuild!
     
    Rodman23 likes this.
  13. raining threes

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    He had a good yr.

    It didn't translate into wins.

    BTW, Schaub led the league in passing in a non winning season too.
     
  14. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Sure if we're going to box in the modern players to former counterparts in different eras. Football evolves and then devolves. Scrambling QBs were a sin in the NFL for decades, but then the game started to look for an edge and the players themselves became more gifted physically. Fundamental shifts start at the high school levels and then trend upwards believe it or not. I once heard Belichek giving an interview where they asked him how he would contain the mobile/running QB and his answer was that he would pull up game film from some of the best high schools in the nation and start his research there!

    One prevailing truth among ALL QBs is that if you can keep them upright they SHOULD perform better and of course Deshaun is no different. His "pocket" stats are a direct correlation to the state of his offensive lines. Same would apply to Aaron. You're guy Russel Wilson had more than twice the INTs that Watson had this year, is on a winning team so those stats become palpable and easy to digest. Imagine if Mike Vick was a young player in todays game where the entire offensive philosophy is centered around the skills of your QB, not trying to make Mike Vick a pocket passer like so many tried to do, and fancy this - it was only Andy Reid who was able to extract the max from Mike even after the prison stint. I digress.

    My main point above all is that it would be nice if our fanbase was locked in with Deshaun and its not. When I talk to fans from other teams who are suspect at the QB position 10/10 times they all pine for a guy like Watson if he was available and pay him whatever he wants. For our fanbase there has been so much change, so much up and down that guys cant seem to enjoy the ride - that is where im coming from. There should be no doubt that Deshaun Watson is the guy to take this team where it needs to go. It should be about surrounding him with adequate talent.
     
  15. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Vick, Lamar, Hurts , Newton, Tebow and other quarterbacks that are elite athletes ultimately fail when they can’t pass. Look how much Lamar has been figured out this year. He even said it himself.
    There were several past era QBs that could scramble and run. The elite were those that could beat you with anticipation, precision passing and reading defenses.
    That is the reason Watson is becoming elite. Not from decent physical attributes (in today’s game).
    I agree with you on Watson, his progression as a passer is what has me sold. Running as a QB will never have long term success. Passing will.
    I’m sure even the most steadfast doubters will come around when Deshaun continues on this path. There is no other opinion that can be validated if he continues-other than wins.
    But we all know this team has minimal talent.
     
  16. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    Rick Smith giveth and Rick Smith taketh. Then asschin taketh even more.
     
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  17. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Randall Cunningham tore the league up both as a runner and later as a passer, but even the best of his years were squandered by poorly constructed teams. I think its in bad faith to lay the W/L on Deshaun entirely. He SHOULD shoulder some blame for those games where his decision making leads to losses sure. Just give him an average defense, not a historically bad one and see how well the TEAM does. Aaron was in purgatory until GB fixed their defense too. No surprise that most SB winning QBs have an above average defense to fall back on.

    Lamar is a freak. When teams can limit his legs is when they will find success. If you allow him to get to the edges and loosen up the D thats when his arm will come into play. Lamar should be a science experiment in the long term success opinion. We dont know yet. There has never been a QB that ran like he does. You cant use Cunningham, Vick, RG3, or anyone else to compare to - what he's doing is revolutionary.
     
  18. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Lamar and a young Vick are very similar in terms of running. Lamar is a better passer earlier on than Vick. Imo those two are very similar.
    Cunningham was a great runner and passer, but so was Young, Elway, McNair and others.

    The ones that could beat you with the arm and brain were the ones that won Super Bowls. I think Deshaun is in that category.
    Lamar is not.

    And you’re right, I wouldn’t put all the blame for losing on Deshaun. I’m saying that’s about the only argument anyone can have if he continues this play .
     
  19. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Believe it or not, Lamar is a much better passer at this point in their respective careers. It wasnt until later that Vick captured what the position was all about, plus the fact that his playmaking on the ground was usually a result of broken plays more similar to Deshaun than the designed stuff they are doing for Lamar. Vicks best passing year came under Andy Reid and resulted in "only" 3300 yards passing and while he ran for 1000 yards in 06 his best season on the ground were about 6-7 yard runs, Lamar is gashing for about a first down every time he takes off designed or otherwise.

    Check it out (I used both players 2nd year stats just for a baseline - not totally fair to Vick since it was an MVP season for Lamar, but there is not enough data yet to establish patterns between the guys with Lamars brief career so far)

    https://stathead.com/football/pcm_f...yrfrom=2002&player_id2=JackLa00&p2yrfrom=2019
     
  20. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Yes, that’s what I said. Lamar is much better passer than Vick was in earlier years.
    Lamar is still a very limited passer, Greg Roman systems have big numbers because of the simplification of the system. Half field reads and presnap single reads.
    The problem is they get figured out. It happened this year with Lamar(his words) and it happened with Kap.
    If Lamar doesn’t figure out how to read defenses, process reads faster and control the line pre snap, he will end up a flash in the pan.
    He has a strong arm but doesn’t have touch, he doesn’t anticipate. When the play breaks down he has ability to break off huge runs. That goes quickly in the NFL.
     
    Verbal Christ likes this.

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