Was T-Mac the best player in the NBA when he was with the Magic?

Sorry - except those with a vested interest in putting Bryant in a better light. There is a negligible difference between shooting 100% and 99.7%.

GJ completely warping my main point. The fact of the matter is McGrady then was better than he is now. It's insane to say otherwise - no one with an infinitesimal amount of basketball knowledge would make that argument.

I used that hypothetical to stress the point - if McGrady had kept playing at the level he played in Orlando he would of been one of the greatest of all time. Are you going to argue otherwise?

Yes it is, especially when we're talking about someone who put up one of the best seasons statistically all time at the age of 22? 23? He followed it up with a historic playoff performance. You bring up the fact that he didn't get past the first round - good luck finding other people who were capable of taking that team past the first round at that point. The fact that he pushed it to a deciding game speaks volumes.

McGrady WON games NO ONE expected him to win. NO ONE expected the Magic to make it to the playoffs once they KNEW Hill would not be in the lineup consistently. WHY would you point at the fact that he didn't win a title or get out of the first round with THAT ORLANDO MAGIC TEAM. No one SANE would think that anyone (Magic - Jordan - Bird - Hakeem - KAJ - WILT) ANYONE could do anything with that team. They were THAT BAD.

Not only that, but the people who point to offseason success need to look at the teams McGrady has lost to. Every team he has EVER lost to in the playoffs has gone on to the conference finals or the NBA Finals. It isn't like he's been losing to scrubs.

It's beyond obvious who came into this thread with an agenda - and it's sad it exists on this forum. McGrady now is better than he was then? He can contribute more to winning now? He never has preformed at an all-time great level? YOU'RE ONLY DELUDING YOURSELF.

 

As a Rocket fan you would want him to preform at that level again for THE SAKE OF THE TEAM. It would make THAT much of a difference - how the hell could you NOT care how he preforms and call yourself a fan of the team?

McGrady at his best gives this team its best chance to win. Simple as that.

 

every single one of those guys would have made that team past the first round of the playoffs.

and every single one of those guys were significantly better than Tmac.

 

My point is that if player A shoots 39.4% and player B shoots 39.5%, its misleading to say that player A shoots 39% and player B shoots 40%.

It has nothing to do with bryant/tmac. It has everything to do with accurate information, especially if stats is the basis of one's argument.

I can't explain it any clearer to you.

 

What T-Mac did for Magic? Score champion for himself and Magic first round or missed playoff. Do you want him to do this for Rox?

 

You think so? What would they of done different? Instead of averaging 38/8/8/2/2 over the Detroit series, they'd average 40/12/12/5/5? There is only so much one player can do.

Why aren't you responding to anything else but that point btw? Is that all you came away with from that post.

 

So you want to get into what deviation is significant? A .3%/.4% deviation is not significant in this case - a basic statistics course could back that up.

Everyone - from sportswriters to coaches round their stats for simplicity's sake. Are they all wrong?

 

MCGRADY WAS NOT THE SAME PLAYER ON THE MAGIC. How many times do I have TO GET THAT THROUGH TO YOU.

If McGrady was capable of preforming at that level for this team it would address SO many of the problems we are facing currently. He would help the Rockets MORE than he is now because he was a better player then than he is now - NO ONE SANE WOULD IMPLY OTHERWISE. It isn't a hard concept...

 

I don't think Tmac was the best player in the NBA in 02-03, but he was certainly the most versatile offensive player the league had seen in a long time. He had Pippen's length, with Jordan's offensive skill set, and Gervin's smoothness all in one. Not to mention, good passing and vision and a decent rebounder and defending on the ball and in the passing lanes.

However, Shaq and Duncan had to be the best at the time, and maybe even Jason Kidd, considering that he took the Spurs to 6 games was overachieving for that team. But as far as shooting guards or scorers, Tmac was better than Kobe for a couple of years. Kobe had the luxury of playing with a VERY DOMINANT Shaq during that time, so his shots came much easier for him. Tmac had to work for everything he scored, and he still managed to average 32 ppg! I think Kobe still drove to the basket more than Tmac, but Tmac's jumper was much better back then, and teams had to respect it, so Tmac would drive more because of that. I would say, Tmac was easily the best perimeter scorer for 2 years in Orlando, maybe even 3 years.

Below is a link of Tmac vs. the Pistons in the 2003 Playoffs. You could see how much of a nightmare he was for opponents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW1MqKr0fxo&feature=related

 

If they're using stats compare players, yes, they're all wrong. Unless they round both players up or both players down.

If you took basic statistics, you'd know this.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html

McGrady had a 30.3 PER - the closest to that being Shaq at 29.5.

Kobe was at 26.2.

 

BTW since so many people are looking at stats for that year - here are the pace adjusted stats for the top 7 MVP candidates. Someone should be sticking out.


Player PTS REB AST STL BLK TO eFG% TS% PER
duncan,tim 23.7 13.1 4.0 0.7 3.0 3.1 .515 .564 26.6
o'neal,shaqu 28.4 11.5 3.2 0.6 2.5 3.0 .574 .602 29.4
garnett,kevi 22.3 13.0 5.9 1.3 1.5 2.7 .508 .553 26.2
bryant,kobe 28.3 6.5 5.5 2.1 0.8 3.3 .483 .550 26.0
mcgrady,trac 32.1 6.5 5.5 1.7 0.8 2.6 .505 .564 30.5
iverson,alle 25.8 3.9 5.2 2.6 0.1 3.3 .436 .500 21.1
kidd,jason 19.7 6.7 9.4 2.4 0.3 3.9 .465 .526 22.0

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3170494&postcount=26

 

Wow......you must be one of the rare and elusive "****," because you're arguing with yourself about something that happened in the past.
Here's the general agreement amongst everyone here:
Yes, Tmac was truly one of the top five players in the league during that time, no question about it. But the best?......Eh...not when Timmy's winning back-to-back MVPs and hauling in championships and Shaq and Kobe were winning them back to back

 

Obviously you are need of some history lessons:
Hakeem
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Bird
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Jordan
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Kareem
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Magic
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Huh? Thats weird. I meant "****"

 

no cursing here dude. try something like 'r****d' or 'scrub' or 'fool'.

 

Wait....this is weird....am I being arbitrarily edited?

 

dude, cetain things can't be said here. apparently you are trying to call him something that's not in the realm of clutchfans etiquette.

 

Top 5, I would say yes.

But the best? Better than Shaq? Better than Ducan? Better than KG?

The best player of the league doesnt not make out the first round. The best player of the league doesnt lead a team to a 20 some straight losses.

If we are talking about potential and talents, I still dont think he was the best.