Was T-Mac the best player in the NBA when he was with the Magic?

Tracy was the best scorer in the game when he was with Orlando, but mvp?

 

He won 19 games in the year before he came to the rockets. I don't care how bad your team is if you are a superstar don't win 19 games especially in the east.

 

He was top 5 in the NBA then and very exciting to watch - but not really close to being MVP caliber.

 

I'm a lifelong Cavs fan (at least since the days of Price and Daugherty). They are not good at all. It's like having someone come up to you and say 'well you've got Mike James and Steve Francis!' Yeah, that was great 4 years ago, not today.

And I'll agree w/ tinman's list. Neither Kobe or Tmac were the best players at the time. It was definitely between Shaq and Duncan.

 

Beyond his offensive prowess back then you had the D.Every time he would D up on Kobe in a bigtime way before the back injury.The guy took it to the rack.He busted outside J's,and had the great court vision.Imagine Tracy playing with Shaq and the rest of the Lakers,pre injury.

 

Stupid analogy. Francis and James arent in the rotation. I'm sure no one has ever said that lebron has a good supporting cast based on players who dont get playing time.

Obviously, you need to look at the players who are actually in the rotation. Big Z is a very decent center, especially in the east. Hughes is capable of having good nights, but he settles for too many jumpers. And damon jones/gibson are both good shooters.

Not to mention that drew gooden is an above average power forward and in my opinion, varejao almost at carl landry's level.

How are these players not good at all?

 

The Magic as a team didn't scare me. You'd let T-Mac do his thing and shut everyone else down. But he himself was unstoppable when he had the ball unless you double or triple-teamed him.

 

Don't forget about Kevin Garnett guys. He won the MVP one of those years.

 

WHO FRIGGIN' CARES, KID? Tracy McGrady is a Rocket now. Please find another topic (other than T-Mac) to post about, please!!!

 

so are you saying dwayne wade has fallen off? and he had more to work with than tracy in 03-04.

and it doesn't matter what tracy did with orlando. he's in houston now. he has to fulfill his promise that he would take us deep in the playoffs. this is the last year that i will give him to fulfill that promise.

i didn't like tracy until the PLAYOFFS of 04-05. so it took me a while to like him when he became a rocket. in that playoffs, i felt he did what he could have done and he put everything on the floor. if he does that this year, i feel we will advance. but we'll see.

 

My point w/ the analogy is that you are talking about Z and Hughes as if they were the same players they were a few years ago. Gibson is a good player. Everyone is capable of having good nights. But Hughes is still shooting in the mid 30's for fg% for crying out loud. Good shooters and actually contributing are two different things. Novak is a good shooter too. And if Damon Jones were on the Rockets he'd probably get as much playing time.

Watch some Cavs games so you can make informed statements. Don't be a talking head like general sports reporters who only watch a few NBA games a year.

 

There's this guy named Tim Duncan, maybe you've heard of him...

 

T-Mac's team was in 8th place and he finished 3rd (or 4th?) in MVP voting two years in a row. That's unheard of.

He probably was the best wing in the league. Best player had to of gone to Shaq.

There is no question if Mcgrady played at that level again we'd be unstoppable.

 

On what probably was the worst team in NBA history - it doesn't help that he got injured, and then got shut down by management.

He scored 62 at the end of his least season (people don't realize he missed his last 9 shots in a row that game, he could of ended up w/ a much higher total)- I don't understand how Mcgrady fell off so much between then and his first season on the Rockets.

The prime difference between him then and now is the shape that he's in.

 

Objective evidence...

Player Efficiency Rating
1. Tracy McGrady-ORL 30.3 (13th best season ever)
2. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 29.5 (20th best season ever)
3. Tim Duncan-SAS 26.9 (78th best season ever)
4. Kevin Garnett-MIN 26.4 (95th best season ever)
5. Kobe Bryant-LAL 26.2 (103rd best season ever)
6. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 25.5
7. Paul Pierce-BOS 22.7
8. Steve Nash-DAL 22.6
9. Sam Cassell-MIL 22.3
10. Jason Kidd-NJN 22.2
11. Vince Carter-TOR 21.9
12. Karl Malone-UTA 21.7
13. Elton Brand-LAC 21.7
14. Jermaine O'Neal-IND 21.4
15. Ray Allen-TOT 21.3
16. Shawn Marion-PHO 21.3
17. Allen Iverson-PHI 21.2
18. Gary Payton-TOT 21.1
19. Andrei Kirilenko-UTA 21.1
20. Michael Redd-MIL 21.0

Win Shares
1. Tim Duncan-SAS 51 (Tied for 14th best season ever)
2. Kevin Garnett-MIN 50 (Tied for 21st best season ever)
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 45 (Tied for 51st best season ever)
Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 45 (Tied for 51st best season ever)
5. Tracy McGrady-ORL 44 (Tied for 58th best season ever)
6. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 40 (Tied for 88th best season ever)
7. Shawn Marion-PHO 37
8. Steve Nash-DAL 32
9. Peja Stojakovic-SAC 31
10. Karl Malone-UTA 30
Ben Wallace-DET 30
12. Paul Pierce-BOS 29
Jermaine O'Neal-IND 29
Jason Kidd-NJN 29
Steve Francis-HOU 29
16. Shareef Abdur-Rahim-ATL 28
P.J. Brown-NOH 28
18. Chauncey Billups-DET 27
Sam Cassell-MIL 27
Doug Christie-SAC 27
Allen Iverson-PHI 27
Stephon Marbury-PHO 27

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. KG
4. T-Mac
5. Kobe
6. Dirkendouche

 

Screw Tmac vs blah blah!

Cassell owning Jason Kidd is the best stat here!

 

He was easily one of the best 5 back then, but no way the best.

 

Actually I'm gonna revise my ranking based on adding together ranks from the 2 stats and subtracting 1 for dominance in certain cases.

Shaq = 2 for PER + 6 for Win Shares - 1 for dominance in PER = 7
Duncan = 3 for PER + 1 for Win Shares - 1 for dominance in Win Shares = 3
KG = 4 for PER + 2 for Win Shares - 1 for dominance in Win Shares = 5
T-Mac = 1 for PER + 5 for Win Shares - 1 for dominance in PER = 5
Kobe = 5 for PER + 3 for Win Shares = 8
Dirk = 6 for PER + 3 for Win Shares = 9

1. Duncan
2. T-Mac (break tie based on having a #1 ranking)
3. KG
4. Shaq
5. Kobe
6. Dirkendouche

 

he was the best scorer and maybe the best athlete but not the best player. he has improved in different areas under jvg (defense, passing, etc.). he's not as athletic as he was there and his jumper is worse also. i do believe, though, that t-mac could easily average 25-5-5 again on a team where he's allowed to play his game.

 

actually your analogy compared Z, hughes, and the rest of the cavs (except lebron) to francis and mike james.

Isnt rafer also in that category? And he's been contributing for the past few games.

seems like novak made a big contribution with about 2.5 seconds left against the kings.

i would put damon jones in over luther head...damon jones is an inherently different player than novak.