Not factual, like you care. 14 persons were charged with criminal violations stemming from Ronald Reagan's Iran-Contra scandal. All of the individuals charged were convicted, except for one CIA official whose case was dismissed on national security grounds and two officials who received unprecedented pre-trial pardons by President Bush following his electoral defeat in 1992. Two of the convictions were reversed on appeal on constitutional grounds that in no way cast doubt on the factual guilt of the men convicted. The individuals charged and the disposition of their cases are: (1) Robert C. McFarlane, National security advisor 1983 to 1985: pleaded guilty to four counts of withholding information from Congress; (2) Caspar W. Weinberger, Secretary of Defense: charged with four counts of false statements and perjury; pardoned before trial by President Bush. (3) Elliott Abrams, Assistant secretary of state for inter-American affairs 1985-1989: pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress; (4) Oliver L. North, Deputy director for political-military affairs at the National Security Council: convicted of altering and destroying documents, accepting an illegal gratuity, and aiding and abetting in the obstruction of Congress; conviction reversed on appeal; (5) John M. Poindexter, Deputy national security advisor under McFarlane 1983 to 1985: convicted of conspiracy, false statements, destruction and removal of records, and obstruction of Congress; conviction reversed on appeal; (6) Richard V. Secord, Retired Air Force general responsible for early transfer of weapons to Iran: pleaded guilty to making false statements to Congress; (7) Albert Hakim, Secord's partner beginning 1983: pleaded guilty to supplementing the salary of North; (8) Thomas G. Clines, a retired CIA agent: convicted of four counts of tax-related offenses for failing to report income from the operations; (9) Carl R. Channell, prominent fund raiser and lobbiest for Contra causes: pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States; (10) Richard R. Miller, Major player in political and paramilitary operations with North and Channell: pleaded guilty to conspiracy to defraud the United States; (11) Clair E. George, During 1980s deputy director of CIA responsible for covert operations: convicted of false statements and perjury before Congress; (12) Duane R. Clarridge, Top CIA official in charge of covert Nicaraguan war, 1981-1984: indicted on seven counts of perjury and false statements; pardoned before trial by President Bush; (13) Alan D. Fiers, Jr, Succeeded Clarridge in 1984 as CIA official in charge of day-today covert operations in Central America: pleaded guilty to withholding information from Congress; (14) Joseph F. Fernandez, CIA: indicted on four counts of obstruction and false statements; case dismissed when Attorney General Richard L. Thornburgh refused to declassify information needed for his defense; At the time President Bush pardoned Weinberger and Clarridge, he also pardoned George, Fiers, Abrams, and McFarlane.
No Worries is right about the cconvictions, I was wrong. My bad. Still all indications are that Reagan knew nothing, and was apparently furious when he found out. The attempt here to place this on Reagan's shoulders is misplaced.
Also, Oliver North said Reagan knew. Bush Sr's silence on the issue also likely indicates that both he and Reagan knew (or why stay silent). Like I said before, if Reagan did not know about Iran-Contra you must consider him grossly incompetent.
If he didn't know, then you must consider him out of the loop. Lots of things go on without the President's knowledge, you know. Most Presidents don't micromanage. At least, not the good ones.
Note that a "surpised" Reagan did not fire the whole lot of the Iran-Contra bunch for gross negligence. Afterall there were negotiations with the hostage takers and arms were sent to an enemy combatant country, Iran.
And yet most presidents would probably have some idea about a rogue, illegal foreign policy initiative being run out of the White House. Most Presidents would have cared if their trusted advisors were lying to Congress, destroying records, and obstruction of justice.
"Well, I don't remember agreeing to disagree, but I kind of like the sound of that. Let's break for lunch. I think Nancy made finger sandwiches!"
Curiously, virtually none of the convictions were actually directly related to this "illegal" foreign policy initiative. The convictions were almost all on counts of perjury or obstruction - about the cover-up, not the actual op itself. I am not trying to defend these guys here - believe me, I see nothing good about supplying Iran with weapons. Had I been in charge I'd have never allowed that to happen. But I can understand why it happened; Congress forbade the administration from supplying the anticommunist forces in Nicaragua (a stupid policy by Congress), and these guys tried to work around that, because they saw the need - rightfully - to fight to make sure Communism did not gain any more of a foothold in this hemisphere than Cuba. At the same time, an opportunity offered itself to free some of the hostages that Hizbollah (an Iranian surrogate) was holding in Lebanon. Freeing hostages = good thing. Still, I am not saying it was the right thing to do (although alot of people think that it was). But you still can't pin it on Reagan's shoulders; the op was secret enough that even he was never told about it. At any rate, I think Oski is right - agree to disagree. Liberals are convinced that he was the devil, I think that on the whole he did alot of good for the country and for the world. We are not going to agree on that.
You know, the reason why I brought up Iran-contra wasn't to tarnish Reagan, at least not in the way that has been argued about for the last page. Regardless of whether Reagan knew or did not know it went on, the fact that the Iranians were able to extort weapons out of us in exchange for hostages undercuts treeman's arguments that Reagan was able to deal effectively with the Iranians and other malcontents by the means of pure intimidation.
I also completely forgot to point out that James Watt was his sec. of the Interior, and Reagan was possibly the worst president for the environment we've had in the second half of the 20th century.
If you continue to try to explain how we had a rosy economy in the 1970s, then I will simply continue to post links on stagflation. You can keep posting links over and over about stagflation. It's completely irrelevent to <I>real GDP</I> - it only affects <I>nominal GDP</I>, which is why I didn't use those numbers. Real GDP growth accounts for inflation and measures the REAL growth of the economy. In REAL terms, the economy grew faster and more in the 1970's than the 1980's. Stagflation, inflation, deflation, recession, depression, whatever you want to talk about - the numbers account for all of that and show this.
