War on Terror Stops Missile Smuggling Plot In NY

I'm probably more akin to Marcia's older brunette sister with a bit of a mean streak. But yes, my hair does smell fantastic.

 

Before you get all carried away with your love for Trader_George SJC, lets remember T_J's thread in which he was *owned* by a high school waitress. I'd dig up a link, but we all know what i'm talking about--let the lovefest continue...

 

If Jorge owns us and a high school waitress owns him, I guess a high school waitress owns us too. There are worse things.

 

I suppose it comes down to what you get out of this place, out of poltitical debate, etc. I myself have never done any internet chatting other than in here, and being a neophyte to the whole thing I can, I suppose, be pretty credible when it comes to people playing little games for the purpose of seeing how someone else will respond, or manipulating them insofar as predicating a response. Part of the reason I have never been into internet chatting is just that kind of thing; and I have not found that the case in here.


I initially just came in here to chat Rockets, but it has served as a forum for me to discuss political issues without having to worry about the other aspects of doing so in academia, has served as a sort of source of male bonding for someone whose life is usually more inclined to be in the presence of women, except with friends or for sports, and I have also, much to my amazement, become sort of attracted to the sense of community in here.


So when it comes to discussing issues which I take very seriously, like the war, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are being genuine, at least overall. Yes there are times when individual comments are easliy dismissed, but in a general sense I would never want to conclude that posters I know are just in it for a lark. For one thing, I don't see the point, for another it's too easy, and for a third, it's self-defeating. Those who don't give you the benefit of the doubt will ignore you, those who do will learn that they should. So in the end you are left talking to yourself, or just posting a series of meaningless comments designed to elicit empty responses. Yay, fun for the whole family.

That T_J does this had occured to me in the past, in terms of his having nothing to support his arguments, but when I saw his process of argument rather than his grounds, I concluded that he meant most of what he said. Apparently many here are saying that I was wrong, that he is out to do no more than garner debate in which he has no meaningfull input merely because he can. That's sad, and more typical of what my perception of internet communities was before I discovered this place; like Best In Show, environments that have their own value systems, their own games and keep score based on zone-specific guidelines predominantly based on who plays those games better. I am not, as I said, interested. T_J, if accurate, according to many in here, is, but what is more dissapointing is that some posters I actually respected see value in it as well.


I remain suspicious as to T_J's intent, as it seems to me that he often attempts to win the argument by presenting what he feels is logical support for his arguments, and usually retreats to the sillyness when his points are refuted. One thought is, if in fact those supporting him by virtue of saying the fact that he doesn't present cohesive arguments is intentional are at all accurate, can you imagine how he must feel if that's not entirely true? Few criticisms cut deeper than when they come unintentionally but sincerely from those trying to defend you. So in that respect, for his sake, I hope you guys are correct.

In terms of what I think of this site, though, I hope you're wrong. That kind of childish game playing bores me. I could come in here and insult homosexuals, racial minorities, or take ridiculous stands on religious issues, and would get a response...but what have I accomplished? Some sort of 10-year old extension of self fascination with having an impact, however hollow? I'll pass, and if you guys are right about T_J, I'll pass on him too. I hope you're wrong.

 

Hey, let me know when you get to NC. I'll buy lunch-- if I can get to you...

 

That sounds great, giddyup. I'll be in Chapel Hill and the woman I'm staying with is a high school teacher so I'll be free for lunches. Is Chapel Hill anywhere near you?

p.s. MacBeth: When you take care with your formatting and typing Jorge wins. Or does he lose? According to his own 'logic' he'll have to read this one. Then again, I'm 100% sure he's read all the other ones too and was just grasping for an excuse not to respond. I'm sure he'll find some other reason to pretend he hasn't read this last one either. Oh, man. Check me out. I'm talking about Jorge again. I'm obsessed with him. He owns me. I've been "EXPOSED." Again. So embarassing...

 

Clown.

 

Hey JAG,

That was a great post, but I am going to say something and I hope you don't get upset.

You know how I admire you and even though, I hardly agree with anything that you say, I do feel respect for you and think you are one of the best posters here (although I wish you could be more concise ).

However, you have got to be aware that some people here are not going to be speaking from the heart like you, me, Batman, and others. There are people here that like to do schticks...rimmy is a perfect example. RM95, IMO, does this as I found out one day that despite what he might post here, he never takes anything off this board seriously. TheFreak is another classic example. We have had emails between us and is nothing close to the way he posts on this board. Mango is yet another.

What I am trying to say is that these posters (TJ included) have developed not a gimmick but a certain "style" that invariably is nothing like the way they are in real life. BrianKagy is yet another example of this.

Now, why do they do this? Well, IMO, the Internet is a great way to preserve anonymity. It is also a great way to escape from your real life. When I first started here, I tried a style that was WAY over the top. I wanted to be as obnoxious as I could be. I thought people could see what I was doing but I think I was too good. However, I am a sensitive person and despite the fact, that this is after all an Internet message board, it bothered me sometimes when people dogged me out on this board. I don't know why, but it did. Therefore, I started posting more from my heart and less as a gimmick or "persona". I guess I started acting more like my true self. Now, I can tell from reading your posts, you are the same way; however, realize that Trader_Jorge is not. I am not saying that what he does is right or wrong but you have to realize that is the "method" he chooses to post. If you can keep that in mind, it makes things a lot easier, I think.

When I read posts by guys like rimmy, RM95, TheFreak, Achebe, heypartner, and even sometimes Smeg, Behad, and DoD, I realize that these are guys that are just having fun and are trying to get a rise out of me and others.

The hard part is actually figuring out that is what they are doing. HP was the one that took me the longest to figure out that is what he was doing (to this day, I still can't tell when he is ever being serious!).

My advice is not to take things too seriously here. I am not saying that war is not a serious thing, but when you are reading stuff by a guy that is saying things like "CASE CLOSED" or "rookie", can you really sit there and tell me with a straight face that you are taking this guy seriously? Yes, TJ knows just enough to make you think that maybe it isn't all an act but that is just part of his style. Anyway, this post is approaching JAG/Macbeth proportions, so I'll end it now. Hopefully, you won't be offended by it.

 

I think it's awesome that everyone who defends Jorge does so by saying he can't possibly be serious.

 

HAHAHAHA. That does speak volumes about the arguments he makes.

 

Quit making this like it is some kind of contest, BJ.

Read this line, please:

Now, please tell me, where in that line or in my post am I defending the guy. I am just making an observation like SJC and rimbaud made. Come on, you know that.

 

So true.

Statements like this remind me of Martin from "the simpsons" who continually praises the teacher for assigning more homework, etc:

 

Gimmicks or online style my butt, we all know you and TJ just acted like normal human beings with pulses at Smeg day, cause if you shown your normal (and online personalities) we would have beaten the crap out of you and used your bodies as fuel in Behad's BBQ.

 

LOL! Go and find moe and tell him that he is holding up your draft!

 

Hi, Manny. Nice post, by the way. I didn't mean anything negative by suggesting you or others were defending him. It seemed like you were promoting understanding of him by saying he wasn't serious -- which is fine. I didn't mean for you to take it badly. I just think it's funny because, no matter what Jorge says, he absolutely means for his political opinions to be taken seriously.

As for 'making' it a contest, we are in the Debate forum. I'm not sensitive about it and Jorge shouldn't be either. And neither should you be, about anything I said at least. It wasn't meant badly at all.

 

No offense taken, BJ. It is just a matter of opinion.

See I don't know how much you talked to or if you even met TJ in person, but I talked to him for a long time at HP's before the game and was amazed at how different he was in real life. I remember telling Jeff and Mrs. JB how shocked I was by the way he was! Maybe that is my problem...if I had never met him and talked to him, maybe my opinion would be different.

But I think you do have to admit that some posters here look at posting here like it is some kind of game. I, OOTH, just post because I have no life.

 

I met Jorge when he came to see my play. He was very nice -- nothing at all like he is on the board -- and I enjoyed talking with him. And it was nice of him to come to the play. But while I know his personality is different outside the BBS, that doesn't change my take on his takes or on his weird, inane style of 'arguing.' I know he's not always being serious, but he is a lot of the time and it's gotta be making him crazy to read posts from people saying he's not, under the basic pretext of defending him. (If you don't like that word, pick another -- I think you know what I mean.)

During the 2000 election a lot of people said Bush seemed like a guy you'd want to have a beer with. I always thought of him more as a guy I'd like to pour a beer on just before vomiting on his shoes and smashing the bottle over his head (oops, now I'm on a watch list... hi, johnny!). But Jorge is a guy I'd genuinely enjoy having a beer with. As are you, Manny, and giddyup and so many others here. I don't know. Maybe I just really like beer. More likely I just don't consider politics in picking my friends.

 

Batman, if you're getting together for some beers in Houston, let me know. Hopefully Refman or someone won't kill me for being a democratic leftist. I haven't met any of the Clutch Cityers and it is probably about time.

I agree with much of what McBeth said as I, too, am relatively new to bbs type chat and like most entered the site to talk about the Rockets, on whom I was wasting too much time and mental energy, only to start talking about politics after 911, on which I now waste too much time, too.

Let me a bit more personal. (Must be the drink or two).I used to go to a lot of political meetings, demonstrations etc. and now largely substitute clutchcity for that. Arguably not a good thing, but I got sort of burned out on political activism and this could be leading me back to activism eventually.

One of the reasons I get mad with the flippancy of Rimbaud is that I feel that these issues are very important, not just momentary academic fad type issues and not just a matter of language or semantics-- after all people in Iraq, the US and around the worlddie and suffer due to to these ideas. Who was it Keynes or someone who said moe or less: "All the world's war are fought over the ideas of dead philosophers".

The good thing about the board is you can talk about politics as you really feel, which you often can't do in daily life, depending on who you generally associate with. That is the bad thing, too, as it can lead to artificial enmity, whereas in the real world we all get along with people who have different points of view for the most part.

I am going to make a confession. I am a lawyer in private practice in Houston.

I used to work for a non-profit immigration law clinic. did hundreds of political asylum and deportation hearings and saw how our government treated these people, whose only "crime" in most cases was fleeing poverty or oppression in El Salvador, Hait, Mexico or wherever.

I did criminal appointments (mostly misdemeanor) and saw how poverty turned some people into criminals. For example a poor sob is jailed repeatedly for driving without a license or without insurance, which he risks because he is being threatened constantly with jail for failure to pay child support. I've seen DA's keep a poor sob non-violent offender another few days in jail, just long enough to lose his job when he is the type of person ,unlike people on this bbs gnerally, who has has a hard time finding one.. I've seen a homeless man deliberately refuse a reduction in sentence so he could wait out the cold in jail. I've seen the innocent plead guilty every day of the week down at the Harris County Courthouse because they're offered immediate release if they do so, but would have to stay in an extra month ( too poor to baond out) in order to go to trial against a lying cop.

Many, of my current clientele is largely composed of desperately poor people who are hurt and have lost their jobs and their health. Many are mentally ill. Many live with relatives. For a 50 year old man to have to go live with his old mom is deeply and at times suicidally depressing. Some of my clients are even on the streetsor selling newspapers on the corners.

Though securely upper middle class, I am privileged to see these people daily and I feel deeply pissed off as theytear up in front of me and suffer due to diabeters, chronic pain, psychosis or whatever. They tell me daily that they don't have medical insurance and can't get medicine for their conditions, when they need it. I see how they are jacked around by insurance companies and the social service agencies, like the food stamp and AFDC office, where I worked before law school

I blame this on our wasteful military industrial complex and the lies about National Health by Bush and the like, who fool people who don't know what is going on, but read the elaborate excuses for the present bs, developed in think tanks funded by the rich to justify low taxes and the present abysmal conditions for many Americans in this rich country..

 

Hey, bigtexxx, I don't deny it for a second. If those are the rules of ownership, color me owned. And it's usually a groovy good time. Just don't suggest he's ever won an argument with me, cause that's never come close to happening.

glynch: absolutely on the beers (don't be afeared of Refman -- he's as nice a guy as you'll meet on this board and a moderate to boot) and thanks for sharing. You're invited too, texxxy.