1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

War-Hawk Republicans and Anti-War Democrats: What's the Difference?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    Published on Tuesday, October 4, 2005 by CommonDreams.org

    War-Hawk Republicans and Anti-War Democrats: What's the Difference?

    by Cindy Sheehan

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1004-20.htm

    The past week in DC found me in many offices of our elected officials: Senators, Congresspersons, pro-war, "anti-war," Democrat, Republican. With a few notable exceptions, all our employees toed party lines.

    Thanks to those who met with me, because, except for Sen. Barbara Boxer, (D-Ca), I was not their constituent. And I believe the Republicans who met with me, whether they knew it or not, were breaking with their leader on this, since he was too cowardly to meet with me.

    The War Hawks I met with made my skin crawl. They so obviously are supporting a war that is not in our nation's best interest, nor is it making us more secure. I heard from Sens. Dole (R-NC) and McCain (R-AZ), and Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO) about 9/11 and "fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them over there." That made me sick. George Bush and his lying band of imperialist greed mongers exploited 9/11 and our national terror of other terrorist attacks to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks on our country. Now, in the aftermath of those lies, tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians are dead and almost 2000 of our brave young men and women. What makes the Iraqi babies and families less precious than ours? The crime that these people committed was being born at the wrong place at the wrong time. George took his war OF terror to their doorsteps. I even asked Sen. Dole when she thought the occupation would be able to end and she was incredulous that I would even think of Iraq as an occupation, she sees it as a liberation. I really wanted to know how many of them do we have to kill before she considered that they were liberated.

    The War Hawks (or war-niks, as I like to call them) also use the rationale that Saddam used weapons of mass destruction on his own people. I asked Sen. Dole three times where Saddam got those weapons, and she wouldn't answer me. Because the smiling, kind, patronizing War-Hawkette knew where Saddam got the weapons. He got them from the USA. Saddam was a bad guy, but he was our bad guy (see the famous picture of the grinning Rummy shaking Hussein's hand) until he decided to sell his oil to Russia and France for Euros...then "oh my gosh, Saddam kills his own people!!"

    We didn't care about Saddam killing his own people after the first Gulf War when George the First encouraged the people of Iraq to rise up against Saddam. We didn't care about the Iraqi children dying during the Clinton years from the bombings and the sanctions. All of a sudden in March 2003 those things became so important that it was urgent that our troops invade Iraq. Besides, the memo to Congress where George asked for the authority to invade Iraq specifically mentions WMD's and terrorism, it says nothing about Saddam being a "bad guy" or spreading "freedom and democracy" to Iraq. The reasons for our continued occupation change as fast as the old ones are proven lies.

    It was horrible to talk to these three warmongering Republicans, I almost felt like I had to take a shower after each visit, but they did not affect my resolve. Congresswoman Musgrave was openly hostile when we were ushered (by her very nice staff) into her office. Ms. Musgrave actually has a son in the service but she got very defensive when I asked which branch of the service her son, who is stationed in Italy, was in. I was asking mother to mother, but she basically said it wasn't any of my business. I told her she must be very worried about her son and he would be in my prayers.

    I know that it is hard to have a child in military service whether in Iraq or Italy. She also "supports the president" 100%. Do these politicians not realize that the people are withdrawing their support for this war and for this president at an unprecedented clip? To support George at this point is to support a sinking stone. To support George at anytime, is and was, a mistake of tragic and immense proportions.

    The War-Hawk Dems I met with were equally, if not more, disheartening. Although my meeting with Sen. Clinton (D-NY) went well, I don't believe she will do anything to alleviate the suffering of the Americans in Iraq or the Iraqi people. I don't believe that sending more troops is the solution, it will only aggravate an already untenable situation. We met in NYC with Sen. Charles Schumer's aide, who told us that the Senator thinks the occupation of Iraq is a "good thing for America" but he wouldn't elaborate on why. The aide was asked if the Senator had a vested interest in keeping this war going, because the Senator is certainly not stupid enough to believe that this misbegotten, misadventure in the Middle East is good for anyone. I don't think the people of Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi would agree with the Senator that this illegal occupation is a "good thing."

    The "Anti-War" Dems perplex me the most, however. Except for the good guys, like the members of the Out of Iraq Caucus and a few Senators, the Dem party line is that we must allow Iraq a window of two months time and after the referendum on the constitution this month and the parliamentary elections in December, it will be time to attack the failed policies of George and his cabal of liars.

    In my meeting with Howard Dean, he told me that the Iraq issue was "hard" and the new Dem "Contract with America" is going to have 10 points and the first one is going to be "Universal Health Care." I told Mr. Dean that if the Dems didn't come out strongly against the war and against George's disastrous policies, we were going to become irrelevant as a party (which is already happening) and the "hard" issue should be the one that is worked on the hardest! I'll admit that the issue doesn't seem so hard to me: George and his sycophantic band of criminals lied to the world; too many people are dead for the lies; too many people are in harm's way for the lies; it is time to bring our troops home. I am just hoping against hope that the war is on the Dems' contract somewhere. George is always pulling out the old saw that what he does in sending our children to die and kill is "hard work." I hate to see that same adjective used to describe bringing them home. The war issue is not complicated: wrong to invade and wrong to stay. Bring our troops home. Simple.

    I think if one is not speaking out right now against the killing in Iraq, one is supporting it. I believe that the members of Congress who have always been, or are now, opposed to this war, need our 100 percent support, admiration, and encouragement. Everyone else needs to be prodded in the right direction. I implored every member I spoke to this past week (and during our bus trip) to lead our country out of the desert. I believe that if they did, America would follow them through fire to bring our troops home.

    Finally, I was harrassed at the Capitol Building by a thug security guard who screamed at me to get out of the building until my next appointment. I complained to another security guard about the disrespectful treatment that I had received from the other guard and he said that most of the employees were "Republicans" and they didn't appreciate what I was doing. I have news for them: this is not about politics, to me, this is about flesh and blood. This is not about right and left, this is about right and wrong. 19 troops were needlessly killed in Iraq this past week. 19 families were destroyed senselessly and avoidably. Hundreds of innocent Iraqis were killed for just being home that day, just being out shopping, or just going about their daily lives. An average of almost three of our young men and women are killed everyday in George's abomination. While the War Hawk Repbublicans are wrongfully supporting a wrongheaded war and the "anti-war" Dems are hemming and hawing about the politics of this administration's misguided and evil policies, how many more families will get the news that their lives have been destroyed in the tragic meantime?

    What are they waiting for?
     
  2. Bullard4Life

    Bullard4Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1
    Can't say much for Sheehans writing style but an interesting read. I wonder why war supporters would even bother meeting with her right now. Seems like nothing good can come out of talking to her. Oh well. Don't want to spin this off into another "should we pull out now" debate but she seemed to have little to no concrete policy stance or justification. Can't really understand why Democrats are unjustified in advocating we stick around until they at least have a government.
     
  3. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    Bullard4life its too late this whole thread is meant to stoke a "pull out now or pull out later debate" by saying that there is no difference between those who supported the war in the first place and the Admin.'s policies and those who didn't support the war in the first place, the Admin.'s policies but think it would be foolish to immediately up and leave.

    I admire Cindy Sheehan for taking a strong stand and sympathize for the loss of her son but its quotes like these that I find as troubling as some of the statements from the entrenched war supporters. Both IMO attempt to reduce a very murky and complicated situation into simplistic statements. Like it or not we went into Iraq and removed the one stabilizing force that held together the country. In the process we also destroyed most of their infrastructure and economy. To complicate it further the religious and ethnic makeup of Iraq has profound implications towards the stability of the whole Middle East. To think that now we've left the country in chaos we can just up and leave with no serious implications strikes me as dangerously naive.

    I don't like that we're in Iraq and I think we're handling things badly but if you consider the implications of leaving Iraq with no central authority or functioning economy there is the potential for much worse to occur.
     
  4. apostolic3

    apostolic3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,624
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sishir Chang, like Colin Powell told Bush before we invaded: "We break it, we own it." As colossal a mistake as invading Iraq was, and as incompetent as this administration has handled Iraq since the invasion, yanking out now suddenly is clearly wrong. Another wrong does not make a right. I don't have the answer for exactly how/when we should leave. But obviously pulling out suddenly would damage our global standing 10 times as much as wrongly invading in the first place. It would also cause a civil war in Iraq that would unless chaos and incredible bloodshed.

    Without digressing too much, it could also cause Pakistan to invade the Kurdish part of Iraq to prevent them from establishing a separate state.

    I understand her passion, but Sheehan does her cause no good with such inflammatory rhetoric. How hard is it for a congressman or senator to publicly support her cause when she machine guns anyone who doesn't swallow everything she says?
     
  5. Bullard4Life

    Bullard4Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1
    Not to mention the fact that Turkey is on record that it will invade any Kurdish state established in Northern Iraq.
     
  6. apostolic3

    apostolic3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,624
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's what I meant. The sensitivity of Turkey about the Kurds has gotten very little media attention. For those who aren't familiar, I would compare Turkish feelings about the Kurds to Russian feelings about Chechens. The difference is Kurdish terrorism in Turkey has almost been completely eradicated, and the Turks aren't about to allow any more flames of Kurdish independence in Turkey.
     
  7. Willis25

    Willis25 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,385
    Likes Received:
    31
    I believe it was noted anarchist and comedian George Carlin who said the only choices we are given are Coke and Pepsi. Which means that the idea of choice in the political process is completely illusory
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now