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War-boy blasts Venezuela for buying weapons...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I voice my displeasure with the human rights, and should a better candidate come along I would be supportive of that candidate. But while voicing that opposition I will still respect the people of nation's right to govern themselves.

    Should human rights violations increase I would support campaigning for a better candidate, move for sanctions, etc.
     
  2. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    How many times do you need to read it to understand it?

    Who said he was reading it?
     
  3. rimbaud

    rimbaud Member
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    Do you cry when you look at yourself in the mirror?
     
  4. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    who would ever doubt your value to this planet, your BIGtexxx *BIG* real BIG even BIGTEXXX, if anyone thinks otherwise they need look no farther than to see your F-150 KING OF THE ROAD
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Finally I've built some street credibility on the bbs.


    That's what I'm talkin about.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Ouch, texxx is getting some flak around here, he is badly in need of my mentoring skill set.

    pirc1, to answer your initial query, I was tipped off to the true age of my young would-be ward when he inquired in a Chinese zodiac thread, what animal "year" 1984 was - making him 20 years old (or very recently 21).

    I'm not sure if anybody answered his inquiry but I think we both know what year that is - why it's the year of the Rat, of course.

    That's when I began to see him as not a shyster but as a malleable lump of clay, capable of being salvaged through the combination of my sage tutelage and a stern but fair rebuke on occasion. The pride I felt when he opted to stay at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel in Miami on New Years over the cheap showiness of the Delano.... it almost brought tears to my eyes.

    Then I invited him on my since aborted Cascades mountain climbing junket - not a pretty tale, that one, but I continue to harbor hopes that I will guide him up his own personal mountains in the future.

    CLIMB EVERY MOUNTAIN LADDIE!
     
    #66 SamFisher, Mar 25, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2005
  7. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    You know Sam, your intentions seem genuine, but your attention to detail leaves much to be desired. This is especially troubling considering the tremendous amount of document review that a lower level associate like yourself must be expected to do. In fact, my guess is that you are probably performing some sort of proofreading exercise right now at this advanced hour on the east coast. My lodging at the Mandarin Oriental did not take place over New Year's. In fact I was in Las Vegas for New Year's. I flew from Las Vegas to Miami to attend the Orange Bowl, at which time I made my accomodation at the MO. I actually partied one night at the Delano, so perhaps there remains a bit of cheap showiness about me yet.

    Let the record show that the mountain climbing junket was scrapped due to Sam's concern about price. Sam took issue to the potential "4 figure" cost of the excursion, at which time he cancelled the trip, leaving not only a hole in my schedule, but also a hole in my heart. This resulted in a dispositive effect on my inner chi, my zeal for life, and today I remain a shell of my former self, relegated to correcting low-lifes like andrew moon on an internet message board.
     
  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Thanks for the good laugh in the morning.

    Keep up the good work Sam and Bigtexxx.
     
  9. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    Let's see- the Bush Administration is worried about the destabilizing effect of a democratically-elected government buying 100,000 rifles, but doesn't have a problem selling F-16s to a country that is run by a guy who came to power in a coup and is currently in a tense nuclear stand off with their democratic neighbor- India.

    Of course, according to the Basso Doctrine Musharraf is really a champion of democracy because Bush said so.

    Sura faints.



    Officials: Bush Agrees to Sell F-16s to Pakistan

    43 minutes ago

    By Adam Entous

    CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) has agreed to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan in a major policy shift rewarding a key ally in the war on terrorism, administration officials said on Friday.



    A senior Bush administration official said the sale, which was blocked for 15 years, "will not change the overall balance of power" between Pakistan and India, and the jets "are vital to Pakistan's security as President (Pervez) Musharraf takes numerous risks prosecuting the war on terror."


    One Bush administration official said the sale involved 24 planes but another said the numbers could change.


    India's prime minister expressed "great disappointment," a spokesman in New Delhi said.


    Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed called Bush's decision "a good gesture... This shows that our relations are growing stronger."


    Washington blocked the sale of the F-16s to Pakistan in 1990 as a sanction against its nuclear weapons program.


    Though no final decision has been made "at this point" on similar F-16 sales to India, the senior Bush administration official said: "We will respond positively to the Indian tender for bids to sell multi-role combat aircraft."


    The F-16 is made by Lockheed Martin Corp., the largest U.S. defense contractor.


    Jehangir Karamat, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, opened new political possibilities for advancing Pakistan's stalled 15-year quest for the F-16 fighters when he said last month that Islamabad would not object to India also buying the American-made jets.


    NUCLEAR NEIGHBORS


    The decision follows Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites)'s visit to India and Pakistan earlier this month. The State Department informed key congressional leaders on Friday.


    In New Delhi, a spokesman for Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said Bush called him on Friday about the planned sale.


    "The prime minister expressed India's great disappointment at the decision which could have negative consequences for India's security environment," Sanjaya Baru, spokesman for the prime minister's office, told Reuters.


    Tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbors, who have fought three wars and were on the brink of another in 2002, have eased since they began talks last year aimed at ending half a century of enmity.


    India has strongly opposed the sale of F-16s to Pakistan after the Pentagon (news - web sites) cleared arms sales worth $1.2 billion to Pakistan last year. New Delhi says the planes could only be used against it in a conflict.


    Islamabad in turn has said that any move by the United States to sell Patriot anti-missile systems to India would trigger a new arms race in the region, after a U.S. defense team made a presentation last month in New Delhi.


    The F-16 sale represents a major policy shift for the United States and a final step toward tacit acceptance of Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons.


    "President Musharraf made a commitment to stand with the United States," the senior administration official said. "This is a long-standing request."
     
    #69 gifford1967, Mar 25, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2005
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Maybe we could sell some F16s to Iran while we are at it.
     
  11. VinceCarter

    VinceCarter Member

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    besides the argument...

    i lived in Venezuela for a summer.... all i can say is DAMN.... the women are BEAUTIFUL....

































    Plastic surgery is a wonderful thing.:D
     
  12. basso

    basso Member
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    ...and the men stood straight and tall...

    actually, i prefer chilean women...
     
  13. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Hugo Chavez is democratically elected.

    He is better on human rights than many of the guys we support around the world. This includes guys Bush wines and dines in trips to Washington D.C. This is extremely hipocritical.

    He is responding to the majority of Venezuelans, who aren't wealthy which is a good thing. He and Venezuelans are entitled to this.

    He is not playing ball with the imperialist oil guys in the Bush Administration.

    The Bush gang will therefore try to overthrow him again.

    Some of the things they have already tried or will try: assassination, economic sabatage, a coup, probably not an invasion as they have been caught lying so much on their war rationales that it is getting old. They will invade if they can get away with it.

    Chavez and Venezuelans are entitltled to take strong steps steps to deal with the overthrow attempts listed above.

    The same folks who decry any attemp by Chavez to save himself are all for virtualy any undemocratic measure taken by Bush in the name of national security, when the US faces no threat remotely comparable to the threat that Bush-Cheney pose to the sovereignity of Venezuela.
     
    #73 glynch, Mar 26, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2005
  14. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    when the US faces no threat remotely comparable to the threat that Bush-Cheney pose to the sovereignity of Venezuela.

    There are those 100,000 AK-47s to consider. Perhaps the US should consider dropping some video-friendly smart bombs or funding some freedom fighters (after all Chavez is a pinko commie ***). It is all good.
     
  15. basso

    basso Member
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    wonder if this what chavez wanted the guns for?

    http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/20053300.asp

    --
    Venezuela Gets Ready For Civil War
    by James Dunnigan
    March 30, 2005
    Discussion Board on this DLS topic

    Venezuela is having problems with the loyalty of its armed forces. The current government is run by a former army officer Hugo Chavez. Normally, that would not be a problem. But Chavez sees himself as another Fidel Castro. That is, the rebel Castro before he proclaimed himself a hard core communist. Chavez wants social revolution in Venezuela, but many, perhaps a majority, of Venezuelans don’t want to be another Cuba. While Venezuela's oil wealth has not been distributed equally, it has created a large middle class. This includes the military. Many of the troops are nervous about Chavez, and his social programs. Even some of Chavez’s military decisions have caused unease among officers and troops. For example, Chavez is now buying military equipment from Russia. This includes helicopters (nine Mi-17s and one Mi-26) for the navy. The navy considers these helicopters unsuitable for naval use. The sailors are correct, but the price is cheap, and Chavez wants to make a political point.

    The army is unhappy about the cozy relationship between Chavez and leftist rebel groups in neighboring Colombia. Venezuelan troops have been operating more aggressively along the Colombian border. This is officially a crackdown on the smugglers who always have operated there. But the Venezuelan troops are accused to really going after the Colombian rebels, or supporting them. Take your pick. No one is sure exactly what is going on.

    To top it all off, Chavez is now organizing a new army, one loyal to him personally. This is part of his plan create "Bolivarian Circles of Venezuela Frontline Defense for National Democratic Revolution." These are political clubs all over the country, particularly in poor areas, where Chavez has the most support. Chavez expects to have 2.2 million members, who will be the backbone of the “democratic revolution unfolding in Venezuela." What upsets the armed forces is Chavezs decision to pass out infantry weapons to these political clubs, so that his new political clubs can use force to “defend the revolution.” There are believed to be Cuban advisors involved in this effort. This sort of mass organization has been used before in Latin America, by both leftist and rightist dictators (pro-fascist Juan Peron of Argentina, and communist Fidel Castro of Cuba.) But by passing out guns to his most dedicated followers, Chavez is angering the military, making the middle class even more nervous, and setting the stage for a bloody civil war.
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    :D



    Keep D&D Civil!!
     
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

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    While I often agree politically with Sam, I must repeat the old joke: What does Friday afternoon in a corporate law firm mean?

    Ans. Only two more working days till Monday morning.

    Fortunately I guess Sam is about to ditch the corporate law grind. At least for a while.
     
    #77 glynch, Mar 30, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    The anti Chavez forces have been preparing for civil war for years. They are encouraged by the anti-democrats within the Bush administration who backed the last coup attempt against him.

    It is natural for them to be pissed if Chavez prepares for a coup or civil war.

    Naturally they hope that they can convince enough of the military to help them join in the coup against the democratically elected president. They will of course do it in the name of democracy.

    I don't know on what basis the author claims that "perhaps a majority" of
    Venezuelans are against Chavez.
     
    #78 glynch, Mar 30, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  19. FranchiseBlade

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    Maybe. Buying guns to protect a democratically elected leader against a military coups, doesn't sound like something to be against to me.
     
  20. BMoney

    BMoney Member

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    Aww, Bigtexx....you're so cute when you try some analyzin'.
     

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