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War and Democracy

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sishir Chang, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I am not convinced myself that Kerry could have built the coalition he talked about. I don't know one way or the other. I only posted this to show that it wasn't Kerry's intention to pull all of our troops out of Iraq and leave it in a state of civil war and chaos.
     
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    I'll do you one better...


    "Lies, Damn Lies, statistics and electronic voting machines."

    :D
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    You took one quote, and you ignored everything he said in every debate, in his written policies, and everywhere else.

    As for the elections and the polls, you realize that the polls at election time were very, very different than those now right? The polls then showed 50+% approval ratings for Bush - now they show mid-30s. The polls showed 50% support for the Iraq war - now they show mid-30s. Do you not see the difference? Things DO change very quickly - look at 1992, followed by 1994, followed by 1996. In a 4 year period, the mood of the country shifted significantly *twice*.
     
  4. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    I will agree that yes people are easily manipulated but that goes to the point that if the Admin cannot maintain support for the war effort it is their fault and not the liberal media's.

    The strategy of a weaker force using the public opinion of the population of the stronger democratic enemy isn't new. Robert E. Lee knew that the South couldn't survive a protracted war with the Union and believed that if the South won a a few key victories at the beginning then the Union population would turn against Lincoln and allow the South the secede. That strategy almost suceeded but Lincoln was a skillful enough politician to maintain support.

    I'm not comparing Lincoln to GW Bush or the rightness of the conflicts but the political strategies involved to maintain support.

    Again though your misplacing blame. Consider again why there is practically no protest in regard to Afghanistan or Cindy Sheehan in regard to Afghanistan even though more than 200 US soldiers have died there. The problem why people keep on asking is that the Admin has failed to make a coherent argument. Instead they've thrown a hodge podge of reasons that they shift around depending on the situation.

    I would agree and would encourage all citizens to do so. At the sametime though public protest is a time honored political tradition that is Constitutional protected.

    Not exactly true. Protest against Vietnam didn't get going in earnest until 1968 and led to the withdrawl of a sitting US President from the election. NO small feat. Nixon pulled out most of the troops and brokered a cease fire in 1973. Its true he continued bombing and there were fighting but not compared to the previous level of intensity and much of it was done in secret.
     
  5. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    I'm still waiting to hear where you got these figures.

    I recall hearing a study of the 2000 presidential election studying positive vs. negative stories about each candidate and it came out in favor of Bush.
     
  6. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    I wouldn't read that into as being that Kerry's platform was swift withdrawl because Kerry heavily qualified that statement everytime he made it and GW Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld have themselves at times predicted that US troops levels could be reduced quickly. Part of the problem with flagging support is that the situation in Iraq hasn't improved as they've said it would to allow troop withdrawl.
     

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