ESPN motion shows the clip of Green standing from his seat and underhanding the cup towards Artest. Pretty clear it was him. Man what a goon.
i've gotta give him credit for his aim. flicking it underhanded from that distance and hitting the bullseye is pretty good. that said, guy sounds like a lowlife. all those criminal things, was it 3 DUI's? he wasn't even supposed to be drinking alcohol. what a chump. he really needs some prison time.
No kidding, there is so much blame to be placed in this one. They should all get sever punishments. I never liked Artest, and despite the calls for him to be a Rocket, I never wanted a headache like that on our team. I will say to his credit that when the fight on the floor initially happened, he went to the scorers tabel in what appeared to be an effort to control himself, and keep out of trouble. It is ironic that by being there he found even more trouple when that white hat moron threw the cup. It is easy for me to say now that I wouldn't have charged after somebody who threw the cup. In the heat of the situation, I honestly don't know what I would have done.
I think you have to make a distinction when thinking about what your reaction would have been: If someone threw a beer on you while you were out on the town, would you have retaliated? If someone threw a beer on you while you were at work, would you have retaliated? I think retaliation in the first scenario is much more likely because you have much less to loose than the in the 2nd scenario. BTW ....if this had all happened at a bar, while Artest was out with some friends, he could have clocked that guy and the NBA probably would have done nothing about it. Its the difference between acceptable behavior at and away from work.
But in a split second can you make that distrinction? Personally I think in a split second instinct takes over. I dont think you sit there and think about where you are to determine what your actions would be. I would probably instinctively do something aggressive in both instencies. ESPECIALLY if I am already "highly charged" from doing something as athltetes were. The more amped up you are, the bigger the chances for something aggressive to happen. This stuff isn't happening in a vaccum. And these people aren't in a calm frame of mind when these decisions are being made.
Deuce, With regards to Artest, he is rarely in a sound frame of mind (just like Maxwell and Wallace) and thats why that happened. I might be wrong, but I'd like to believe that the average calm person can and does thinking about consequences before acting. People do quite often think about their families and their career first before deciding to pound someone. Mo Taylor had some great quotes in the paper yesterday about how beligerant some fans have been to him, about nasty things they say or do and basically said that he knows he has too much to lose by going after them.
Deuce, I have to agree with you there. There are limits of restraint. If I were in a situation where someone "disrespected" me I would have to weigh a lot of option before I acted. If I or any of us were out and got into a heated situation you would have to think about the consequences of your actions. Let say I get into a bar fight, I go to jail pay a fine and put undue stress on my family. You have to consider the consequences, that's what adults do and I'm talking about both of them, the fan and Artest.
That's the problem. You said "average calm person". I am talking about a competitive athlete in a highly charged situation. There is nothing average and calm about it. He is amped. And no one is thinking about consequences at that time. It is all instinct. I am sure I am not going to persuade you with this post. But that's how I feel. We can agree to disagree about it.
Artest is still the exception to the rule there though. Athletes are in competitive and highly charged situations every day and 99% of them never go into the stands to confront a fan. its the same way the NBA expects players to behave on the court and punish them when they can't control their anger You can blame it instinct, but athletes aren't animals. I disagree .....errrr.....i mean agree
And 99% of them never have foreign objects thrown at them at close range either I mean, there is an expectation among the athletes that they are not going to be in danger at their workplace. Language and insults are one thing. Foreign objects are another. (although I think cracking down on the language would be a nice start to the real problem). Actually, it is what sets humans apart from animals which is our ability to reason and not only rely on instinct. However we still have instincts. We just sometimes repress them. Sometimes it is harder than others depending on the stimulous. Agreed!
Cups of beer/water, snowballs, batteries, popcorn or whatever happens much more often than you would think in professional sports. In fact, I would say it happens quite often. We just don't hear about it unless a cameraman catches it. Regardless, that happens though, and athletes know it and know they have to ignore it. I agree about the language problem. Other fans, and players, shouldnt have to be subjected to that. I agree about repression, but why is Artest (for the most part) able to control his instincts on the court, where he is bumping and fouling and being fouled for 40 mins every night, but can't control his instincts when it came to that cup thrower? Thats why I in no way shape or form believe that what Artest did was self defense, bur rather, clear retailiation.
I also agree with the Chad Ford article. I almost feel kind of sorry for Artest, compared to O'Neal and Jackson. Am I wrong to assume that Artest is also the only person involved that has apologized so far (even though he also questioned the punishment at the same time)?
SJC, I think being contrite, whether you are or not, is going to help get the suspensions reduced. So for that, I would be quite certain that O'Neal and Jackson will come out and apologize. If they don't, then they are just dumb.
They may need to be careful about apologies, considering that admissions of guilt may be used against them in criminal or civil procedures.
Just wanted to touch on this one comment. I agree that that stuff does happen more than we think and it is terrible. I think "fan behavior" needs to be REALLY looked at these days and I hope the ONE positive that can come out of this entire incident is fans taking a look at their OWN behavior. That includes throwing things and language. It is high time that these ushers (and other fans) start policing themselves and get rid of the garbage fans. Anyway, I would say that the majority of that stuff happens in baseball and in football where the fans are FARTHER away from the players. Fans in STANDS that are HIGH UP and far away from players gives the fan a sense of "security" and thus makes them feel easier about doing something like that. The chances of a baseball player and certainly a football player of going up into the stands is much slimer due to the physical barriers. More so in football than baseball I agree. I think in the basketball arena where the players are CLOSE to the fans it doesnt happen (as much comparatively) because perhaps the fans dont feel as safe in terms of "getting away with it". Perhaps fans KNOW that the players could retaliate very easily. Basically there is a deternence here. I would suggest that the very thing we are all upset over (players going into the stands) is the very thing that deters fans from throwing things in the first place. If the fan thinks they can get away with it without bodily harm (not to mention criminal charges) then the fan might be more apt to doing it. Just something to think about.
Well you can thinking about it from a couple of different angles. 1) I think the deterent for most fans to stay in their seats and not throw things is not because they are afraid that the players will pound them (although that may be a reason for some people), is mostly because a) Its just wrong and b) They don't want to get arrested. 2) I would venture to guess that most fans that throw things are probably drunk. And obviously when that happens, common sense just goes out the window. So overall, when a fan throws something, I flat out classify them as idiotic criminals who have had too much to drink who have a) No fear of being arrested and b) Actually would love nothing more than a chance to pound someone who is helping defeat their team
Maybe the Pistons should sign this guy. Get him to shoot those desperate shots from half court at the buzzer.
