1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Walkback: Obama asks Holder to move terror trials

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,678
    Likes Received:
    6,369
    good for him- even my liberal friends in battery park city think holding the trials in New York is a bad idea.

    i'd hate to lose access to governor's island though- it's just now becoming a new urban oasis for new yorkers. seems to me if you were looking for a remote, secure facility to hold a trial, that there's already one built about 90 miles south of key west.

    [rquoter]White House asks Justice Department to look for other places to hold 9/11 terror trial

    BY Kenneth R. Bazinet, Adam Lisberg and Samuel Goldsmith
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
    Originally Published:Thursday, January 28th 2010, 8:04 PM
    Updated: Thursday, January 28th 2010, 9:14 PM
    The White House ordered the Justice Department Thursday night to consider other places to try the 9/11 terror suspects after a wave of opposition to holding the trial in lower Manhattan.

    The dramatic turnabout came hours after Mayor Bloomberg said he would "prefer that they did it elsewhere" and then spoke to Attorney General Eric Holder.

    "It would be an inconvenience at the least, and probably that's too mild a word for people that live in the neighborhood and businesses in the neighborhood," Bloomberg told reporters.

    "There are places that would be less expensive for the taxpayers and less disruptive for New York City."

    State and city leaders have increasingly railed against a plan to try Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in Manhattan federal court since Holder proposed it last month.

    Sen. Chuck Schumer said he was "pleased" that the administration is reconsidering the location of the trial.

    Earlier in the day, Schumer spoke "with high-level members of the administration and urged them to find alternatives," said the senator's spokesman, Josh Vlasto.

    The order to consider new venues does not change the White House's position that Mohammed should be tried in civilian court.

    "President Obama is still committed to trying Mohammed and four other terrorist detainees in federal court," spokesman Bill Burton said Thursday.

    "He agrees with the attorney general's opinion that . . . he and others can be litigated successfully and securely in the United States of America, just like others have," Burton said.

    Burton referred questions about the location debate to the Justice Department. While not commenting publicly, a department official disputed the characterization that the White House ordered the possible move.

    But another insider told the Daily News that Justice officials have been caught off guard by the fiery opposition in New York.

    "They're in a tizzy at Justice over Bloomberg," a federal law enforcement official said. "It's like a half-baked soufflé - the plan is collapsing."

    Julie Menin, the chairwoman of Community Board 1 who helped rally opposition to the plan, called the shift "a step in the right direction."

    "I'm thrilled the White House is reconsidering," Menin said. "The trial has to be moved out of New York City."

    Meanwhile, a source told The News that Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly was the driving force behind the push by Manhattan business leaders to change the mayor's mind on the trial.

    Kelly made an "extremely powerful" speech to a roomful of 150 prominent business leaders about how disruptive and costly the trial would be for lower Manhattan at an annual police charity event on Jan. 13, the source said.

    "What turned this around was when Ray made a presentation to the Police Foundation," the source said. "Everyone went from thinking, 'Justice will be served' to thinking 'We are screwed.' "

    What followed was a barrage of complaints to the mayor from some of New York's most powerful tycoons - part of a tide of pressure that led Bloomberg to turn against hosting the trial.

    Estimates put the cost of a multiyear terror trial in lower Manhattan at about $200 million a year. Leaders have suggested other venues for the trial, such as the Military Academy at West Point or Stewart Air National Guard Base in upstate Newburgh.

    The federal government has said they would reimburse the city for the costs, most of which cover overtime for increased security, but they won't reimburse business owners for lost revenue during the chaos, said Steven Spinola, president of the heavyweight business group Real Estate Board of New York.

    "Is the federal government going to give the city $1 billion plus the cost of propping up businesses? I don't think so," Spinola said.

    "The mayor clearly has been thinking about this. The tide is turning," he said.[/rquoter]
     
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    I myself have no problem with the trials being here, but understand other people's emotions about it either way. Whatever decision Holder makes I'm sure will be in the best interest of America and the good people of New York City.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,869
    Likes Received:
    36,423
    The Mayor is wrong - we've had multiple terrorist trials downtown before...what was the "inconvenience" that occurred back then? I worked on Pine street and I don't remember anything out of the ordinary.

    The MCC is built with an underground passageway to the courthouse. Other than police doing crowd/media control out on worth & out in Foley square, which happens for any high profile trial. I don't see what the big deal is.
     
  4. uolj

    uolj Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    60
    White House Pushes Back On Reports That 9/11 Trial Is Moving
    [rquoter]...

    An administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity, called the stories "overwritten," suggesting that reporters had gotten wind of contingency plans that the White House had naturally put in place.

    "Conversations have occurred within the administration to discuss contingency options should the possibility of a trial in Lower Manhattan be foreclosed upon by Congress or locally," the administration official emailed.

    A Justice Department official, meanwhile, confirmed that there had not been "any order from the White House" to look into an alternate venue. The official did note, however, that it was "true" that the department was "considering other sites" mainly because the one in New York City was "looking too expensive."

    As it stands now, the administration does appear to be moving ahead with plans to try Khalid Sheik Muhammad and others in New York City.
    But there is clearly a sense among officials at the White House and the Justice Department that budget issues, if not national or local lawmakers, could force them to abandon the plans.

    ...[/rquoter]
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,812
    Likes Received:
    17,435
    it's obvious that basso is scared again. Anytime this kind of stuff is brought up it's obvious that basso paralyzed by fear. It's clouded his judgment and reasoning.

    It's not worth dealing with.
     
  6. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,678
    Likes Received:
    6,369
    gawd, what a clown show;

    [rquoter]Bay what? Guantanamo eyed for 9/11 trial
    By JOHN DOYLE and DAVID SEIFMAN in NY and CHARLES HURT in DC

    The trial of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed won't be held in lower Manhattan and could take place in a military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay, sources said last night.

    Administration officials said that no final decision had been made but that officials of the Department of Justice and the White House were working feverishly to find a venue that would be less expensive and less of a security risk than New York City.

    The back-to-the-future Gitmo option was reported yesterday by Fox News and was not disputed by White House officials.

    Such a move would likely bring howls of protest from liberals already frustrated that President Obama has failed to meet his deadline for closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay.

    It would also indicate that after years of attacking the Bush administration for its handling of the war on terror, Obama officials are embracing one of the most controversial aspects of it.

    The administration is likely considering Gitmo because Congress is moving to cut off funding for holding the expensive trials in civilians courts.

    Rep. Peter King (R-LI) has introduced a bill that would prohibit the use of Justice Department funds to try Guantanamo detainees in federal civilian courts, and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said he would introduce a similar bill in the Senate next week.

    The Washington Post, meanwhile, reports that wherever the terror trials are eventually held, it is virtually certain that they will not take place in New York City.

    Police Commissioner Ray Kelly yesterday credited Mayor Bloomberg, who spoke out against the holding the trials in New York, with spurring the Obama administration to reconsider.

    "I think the president responded to, certainly, the mayor's statement yesterday and community concerns, and it, quite frankly, gives us a little more room in the Police Department," he said.

    "The mayor's position is the right position, and I think the mayor was the reason it was moved.

    "There was a lot of concern in the community. A lot of other political leaders were worried about it, but it wasn't until the mayor made the statement that the White House reacted. It's the right decision."

    But the administration insisted that Justice officials had been reviewing other options well before Bloomberg changed his mind and voiced his opposition.

    It was not until word leaked out that the DOJ was reconsidering that Bloomberg spoke up, one official said.

    Other domestic sites mentioned for the trials include a former military base in New York Harbor that welcomes summertime picnickers and bike riders, the US Military Academy at West Point, and Stewart Air National Guard Base in upstate Newburgh.

    Bloomberg said yesterday that he would not brand Obama a flip-flopper over his turnabout.

    "To me, it's a sign of maturity, strength and intellect," Bloomberg said on WOR radio yesterday.

    "If somebody comes up with a better idea -- if the world changes -- you change."

    Gov. Paterson said he was "elated that our concerns are being considered by the president and the federal government."

    The effort to nix New York as the venue for the "terror trial of the century" also got a boost yesterday when Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) urged Obama to hold the trial elsewhere.

    She cited the high threat of terrorist strikes, especially for a city like New York.

    "Without getting into classified details, I believe we should view the attempted Christmas Day plot as a continuation, not an end, of plots to strike the United States by al Qaeda affiliates," she wrote.

    "Moreover, New York City has been a high-priority target since at least the first World Trade Center bombing, in 1993. The trial of the most significant terrorist in custody would add to the threat."[/rquoter]
     
  7. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,678
    Likes Received:
    6,369
    i guess it really doesn't matter where they try him, since they're just going to kill him when the trial's over. not that'd i'd mind, but so much for the presumption of innocence and a fair and unbiased trial.
     
  8. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,678
    Likes Received:
    6,369
    but i thought military tribunals were an immoral chimpymchitlerburton tactic?


    [rquoter]White House Plans To Put Terror Trial In Military Court

    The Obama administration is reportedly working on a deal with senators that would shut down the prison at Guantanamo Bay and make Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other accused 9/11 planners stand trial in a military court—not a civilian court. Although President Obama had initially supported Attorney General Eric Holder's plan to try the suspects in a Lower Manhattan federal courthouse, the administration began distancing itself from the proposed New York trial after Republicans and local electeds including Mayor Bloomberg spoke out against it.

    The Wall Street Journal reports that the plan would put terror suspects in front of military commissions that would "offer defendants more rights than they had under the Bush administration, but fewer than they would be afforded in civilian court." Under the proposal, which is still being drafted, low-level Al-Qaeda suspects and financiers might still be tried in civilian courts, but many others suspects would face military trials. In order to shut down the prison at Guantanamo Bay, the federal government would purchase a prison in Thomson, Illinoise, and construct a federal maximum security facility and a military courthouse on site. Some 48 Guantanamo prisoners who can't be convicted in court—but are "deemed too dangerous for release"—would continue to be detained indefinitely without trial.[/rquoter]
     
  9. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    18,100
    Likes Received:
    447
    The only inconvenience would have probably been conservatives protesting the holding of the trial in New York.
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,869
    Likes Received:
    36,423
    Right - you've reported the demise of the trials about 15 times now, maybe this time you'll be right.
     
  11. basso

    basso Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    29,678
    Likes Received:
    6,369
    maybe indeed.

    [rquoter]Obama Clears Way for Guantánamo Trials
    By SCOTT SHANE and MARK LANDLER
    WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday reversed his two-year-old order halting new military charges against detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, permitting military trials to resume with revamped procedures but implicitly admitting the failure of his pledge to close the prison camp.

    Mr. Obama said in a statement that he remained committed to closing Guantánamo someday and to charging some terrorism suspects in civilian criminal courts. But Congress has blocked the transfer of prisoners from Guantánamo to the United States for trial, frustrating the administration’s plan to hold civilian trials for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-professed chief plotter of the Sept. 11 attacks, and others accused of terrorism.

    Officials declined to say whether Mr. Mohammed would be scheduled for a military commission or would await a trial in federal court if Congress lifts its prohibition.

    Separately, for detainees who will not get trials, Mr. Obama set out new rules in an executive order Monday requiring a review of their status within a year and every three years after that to determine whether they remain a threat, should be scheduled for a military trial or should be released. The order also requires compliance with the Geneva Conventions and the international treaty that bans torture and inhumane treatment.

    Mr. Obama said in a statement that from the beginning of his administration, “the United States has worked to bring terrorists to justice consistent with our commitment to protect the American people and uphold our values.” He said the new procedures, which had been forecast in news reports, “broaden our ability to bring terrorists to justice, provide oversight for our actions, and ensure the humane treatment of detainees.”

    Administration officials declined to discuss individual cases, but one senior official said he expected new charges to be brought against detainees within days or weeks. A second official said the administration was committed to bringing “9/11 plotters to justice” but did not explain how that might occur. Among detainees believed most likely to face a military commission soon is Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, a Saudi accused of planning the bombing of the American destroyer Cole in Yemen in 2000. He was subjected to waterboarding, which could open the way to assertions by the defense that he was tortured, complicating any trial.

    Civil liberties advocates, who have long been critical of Guantánamo, expressed disappointment that the military system remained in place more than two years after Mr. Obama took office.

    “This is a step down the road toward institutionalizing a preventive-detention regime,” said Elisa Massimino, president of Human Rights First. “People in the Mideast are looking to establish new rules for their own societies, and this sends a mixed message at best.”

    Still, some lawyers for detainees said the executive order might speed the release of men imprisoned for years without trial, either after a review, a trial or a plea agreement.

    “If this leads to a meaningful process and a conclusion that a person should be released, that would be an improvement,” said Joseph Margulies, a law professor at Northwestern who has represented Guantánamo prisoners and written a book on the detention camp.

    Mr. Obama had suggested that he might go to Congress for a law governing indefinite detention. Human rights groups were relieved that he instead issued an executive order, which is easier to undo in the future. They were also pleased that Mr. Obama limited his order to 172 prisoners currently held at Guantánamo rather than extending it to any future detainees.

    Karen J. Greenberg, director of the Center on Law and Security at New York University, said she was pleased that the executive order left open the possibility that prisoners might be transferred to the United States at some point and that the review panels would include representatives from the Departments of State, Justice and Homeland Security as well as Defense and the director of national intelligence.

    But Ms. Greenberg added that the order “does nothing to address the underlying moral and philosophical issues at stake at Guantánamo.”

    Republican lawmakers criticized the president for not working with Congress on a law that would govern the prosecution and detention of terrorism suspects, even as they applauded him for rescinding his ban on military commissions.

    “I am disappointed the White House chose to put another Band-Aid on this problem, rather than working with Congress to develop the comprehensive and long-term legislative framework we need,” said Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

    But several Democrats rallied behind the White House, saying the executive order would guarantee timely trials for the remaining detainees, thus avoiding the risk that courts would just order their release.

    “The executive order announced today helps clear the way to charge and try our enemies,” said Representative Adam Smith of Washington, the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee.

    Administration officials insisted that Mr. Obama had not retreated from his pledge to close Guantánamo Bay, despite difficulties in transferring prisoners or trying them in federal courts. Detainees have been released to their home countries and to other countries as varied as Germany and Palau, and a senior official said that process would continue.

    The new procedures for military commissions guarantee detainees access to a legal representative and to a broader range of classified information, which the detainee’s representative can use to argue his client’s case before the review board.

    The administration also said it would ask for Senate approval to sign on to an additional protocol of the Geneva Conventions governing humane treatment and fair trials for prisoners held in wartime. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the step would “reaffirm the determination of the United States to treat humanely all detainees in our custody.”

    Since the beginning of the Obama administration, the Defense Department has transferred 67 detainees from Guantánamo Bay to 24 destinations, including the transfer of 40 detainees to third countries, according to government figures. But the active status of Al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen, the home of the largest remaining group of detainees, has dissuaded the administration from sending prisoners there. And most countries have agreed to accept only tiny numbers of Guantánamo detainees.

    Today’s total of 172 detainees is down from 242 when Mr. Obama entered office. About 500 detainees were released by the Bush administration.[/rquoter]
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,925
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    LMAO at Sam getting shamed yet again
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,755
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    so you agree with this decision?
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,869
    Likes Received:
    36,423
    What did your nonexistent friends from Battery Park think about the trials of Guantanamo detainees that occurred down here in December/January?

    Did they have to move, or did they just not notice, like you?

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=199726&highlight=guantanamo
     
  15. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,755
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    greenwald ignores the fact that a lot of these trials are already tainted and that the order is limited to a group of detainees already there and no future detainees.

    also, whatever you feel about obama's intentions, congress is blocking moving the prisoners
     
  17. wakkoman

    wakkoman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,935
    Likes Received:
    80
    Predictable post is predictable.
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,869
    Likes Received:
    36,423
    Which, incredibly enough, is more than we can say for your post on this matter.
     
  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,755
    Likes Received:
    2,988
  20. wakkoman

    wakkoman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,935
    Likes Received:
    80
    The king of worthless posts criticizing mine? That's rich.

    How do you find the time, el Samuel? No clients with traffic infractions to fight in court today?
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now