Wagner rejects contract Astros' $25 million offer not enough By JOSEPH DUARTE Copyright 2001 Houston Chronicle Billy Wagner rejected a three-year, $25 million offer from the Astros on Wednesday, and the sides have reached an impasse in negotiations that could move the popular relief pitcher one step closer to testing the free-agent market after the 2002 season. "You could say we are at a stalemate," Wagner said from his offseason home in Virginia. "What they've offered me is not adequate at today's prices and for my performance." The standoff could result in Wagner and the Astros going to arbitration, which would result in a one-year deal. The Astros have offered Wagner a three-year deal worth $24 million with an $8 million option for 2005 that could push the total value of the package to $32 million, according to sources familiar with the negotiations. The deal includes a $1 million buyout if the club chooses not to pick up the option. One of the major roadblocks in negotiations has been Wagner's demand -- and the Astros' unwillingness -- to include a guaranteed fourth year on the deal. The club has been reluctant to give such a contract to a pitcher since Doug Drabek and Greg Swindell signed for a combined $36.5 million, each for four years, in 1992. "I haven't gone and asked for the moon or something outrageous. I'm not asking to be the highest paid," Wagner said. "All I'm asking is to be treated fairly." General manager Gerry Hunsicker would not confirm or deny the apparent breakdown in talks with Wagner. "I'm really not interested in negotiating in the press," Hunsicker said. "(Contract) negotiations are never easy. We do have another year before Billy becomes a free agent." Meanwhile, Hunsicker is close to filling one of two vacant bullpen spots with former Astro C.J. Nitkowski, the lefthander who was traded from Detroit to the Astros before the 1997 season and dealt back to the Tigers before the 1999 season. An announcement could come as early as today. Wagner, who tied his franchise record with 39 saves in 2001, is eligible for arbitration and can become a free agent after next season. He reiterated that his first choice is to work out a deal with the Astros, who selected him in the first round of the 1993 draft. If something cannot be worked out, he said he will test free agency when he becomes eligible next winter. "This is a business, and sometimes you don't get to stay on the same team forever," Wagner said. "I want to remain with the Astros. Houston is the only place I've ever known." While talks between the sides will continue, Wagner could opt to file for arbitration before the Jan. 15 deadline and likely would receive a base salary for next season in the $8 million range. The Astros have an impressive track record for avoiding arbitration cases -- their last was Darryl Kile's in 1996 -- and likely would attempt to work out a deal with Wagner. Based on escalating salaries, Wagner is seeking the current going rate of $10 million annually for the top closers. John Smoltz, who moved into the closer's role with Atlanta this past season, received a three-year, $30 million deal from the Braves last month. Wagner said the message he is receiving from the Astros is that he is not in the top echelon of closers that includes Mariano Rivera, Robb Nen and Trevor Hoffman. "I'd be crazy not to at least look at the market and see what's out there," Wagner said. After taking over the full-time closer's role in 1997, Wagner has posted 30 or more saves for the Astros in three of the last four seasons. He set the franchise record with 39 saves in 1999 and matched that in 2001, one year after undergoing elbow surgery. His 146 career saves are second in franchise history only to Dave Smith's 199. "The Astros have always been good to me, so it does surprise me we haven't (worked out a deal)," Wagner said. Wagner also endorsed comments made in Wednesday's Chronicle by teammate Jeff Bagwell, who expressed concern over the Astros' lack of significant offseason moves. "We are kind of taking a step back," Wagner said. "When you're trying to defend the division (title), you'd think we would say we don't need starting pitching. But getting rid of (Moises) Alou and (Vinny) Castilla, we kind of need something. To me, I hate to see us taking that step back." Also, the Astros did not tender a contract to backup outfielder Glen Barker, allowing him to become a free agent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The deal the Astros offered him would probably have been overpaying him, yet he turns it down. I like watching him pitch, but you aren't worth more Mr. Wagner.
billy isnt worth 10 mil a yr, no closer is, sorry john smoltz but that was because ny offered an insane deal and the braves were paying you for your full tenure i think he needs to look in the mirror and see how generous the offer is... the reason i brought up smoltz is these big market clubs indirectly set bad market prices for other teams, like ny offering 4 yrs 52 mil to smoltz if he must go lets get a good 3b or ss for him
Screw Billy, if he has such an over-inflated opinion of his value to the Astros, let his ass walk, or trade him. But Dotel can likely fill Wagner's shoes with ease, and Billy certainly has a decent amount of trade value.
Lucky, lucky Raven, I almost caught you man. You had a small AMOUNT of time before I lowered the boom. By the way, 10 million is an insane amount to pay billy. He needs to check himself.
This is one of the insidious things that big market clubs have an advantage in over small market teams. Not only can they outbid teams for the big name players, but they raise the prices for other components of the team(like closers) so much that it would break a team to pay them that much.
The problem with trading Wagner is the number of team who will take him - many of the big market squads (sans Boston) have closers and relatively deep bullpens and thus have no need for Wagner and his contract demands. Small-market squads tend to trade players like Billy away, so it's unlikely they'd want another in return...especially since many have cheaper options on the way through the farm system. Any team would be happy to get him as a free agent, but very few would be willing to trade players/prospects for him, especially with free agency possibly looming.
I know it will be tough to trade him, but I have a gut feeling that a trade is imminent, especially if the Astros can get a left handed hitting third baseman or bona-fide center fielder. They would then make Dotel the closer.
I think that Wagner is getting greedy on this one. He complains along with Bagwell that we dont make any moves and take steps back but he wants more money. We had to get rid of Alou and Castilla so that they could afford Bags and Wags. Then when they offer a very reasonable offer, he complains. I am also upset with the lack of moves the Astros have made but they shoot themselves in the foot when you have to pay: Bags - 17 mil Biggio - 8 mil? (I think it is about that much) Wags - 8+ mil (and he didnt even accept that offer) Hidalgo - 5 mil? Reynolds - 5 mil? --------------------------- Total of approximately - 43 mil That is 2/3 of the 65 mil that they want to stay under for only 5 players. That is pathetic. I love Bagwell but he isnt worth 17 mil. I think you could get 2-3 quality players for that money and play Ward at first. Ward will not give you the same production as Bagwell but combined with the other players I think you have a better team. Look at Seattle. We could easily be a Seattle. I love Biggio also but he isnt worth whatever he is making either. He doesnt give you the production of a 8 mil player. If I had to choose between a Biggio or Alou, I choose Alou. He is a better player in my opinion. Anyway that is my Astros rant for the day. I just know that season ticket purchasing is coming up again and I do not care to go watch them have another 2000 season.
wagner is my favorite astro...but this is insane. the astros simply can't afford him at $10 million/year.
Get rid of him. I can't believe we kept Billy Wagner over Alou. Billy really hasn't been performing all that well in my opinion. All he has is that stupid fastball and most hitters know what to expect and can hit it now. I'm with Bags....the Astros are going to suck next year. Their decision making on roster players is borderline r****ded. Make Dotel the closer and lose this chump. Damn stros....look out cellar....here we come....again? Cubs and Cardinals have improved....we have gotten worse.
Baseball is going to hell in a handbasket. The Darren Dreiforts of the world are getting bucketloads of money a year, so why not Wagner (who'll probably throw out his arm in 2 years)? See the Astros offer a more than reasonable deal. See Wagner reject it. See Wagner test the market. See Wagner sign with the Yankees for 4 years, $44 million. Go, Wagner, go! In the near future... See Roy Oswalt test the market. See the Astros offer a big deal. See Oswalt reject it. See Oswalt sign with the Braves for 6 years, $67 million. Go, Oswalt, go! I'm really sick of this. I think I'll stick to sports with salary caps from now on. At least in those sports, most teams aren't eliminated from contention the moment the season begins...
I dont begrudge anyone getting what there worth but come on, 3 years and 25 million isnt enough I`m sorry, but once you get over 8 million a year {guaranteed} what the big friggin difference of 2 million. Are you going to buy 1 more house, more cars, get a bigger possee?? I see Brett Boone of the Mariners rejected a similar deal and has decided to go to arbitration for a 1 year contract. This is for a second baseman whose had 1 outstanding year and now wants to break the bank. I hope he has a terrible year and this decision comes back to bite him in the butt.
surfguy -- billy hasn't been performing that well??? huh???? the guy blew two saves all year long...he was arguably the very best closer in the game last year. that's hard to replace. dotel has only 5 save apperances, roughly...and he blew 2 of them. wagner had roughly 43 save apperances and blew 2. that's pretty damn good.
cubs and cards may have gotten better....we'll see. Isringhausen is overrated...Tino Martinez was a good pickup...Alou was a good pickup for the Cubs. nevertheless...the Astros will still have the best starting rotation in the division...i think that alone will keep them from sucking. will they win the division?? i don't know...but their starters are too good for them to outright suck. tell bagwell to take a pay cut...seems he's estopped from complaining about inability or lack of commitment to add to the payroll when he takes up such a sizeable chunk of it. he knew the astros financial position when he signed that deal..he knew it would limit their ability to pay others...now he has to live with it.
I have to argue that dotel is the real deal. I dont think that there was a better setup man in baseball last year. He was unbelievable. He routinely went out there and shut guys down for 2 innings and that is something that Wagner cannot do. Wagner pitches one inning and that is it and that is why he is not as good as a Rivera, Nen, or Hoffman. Those guys pitch 2 innings regularly. I am a huge Wagner fan so dont get me wrong. I enjoy nothing more than to see Billy sprinting out to the mound with Enter Sandman playing. I think we will be crazy to get rid of him because the dotel - wagner combo is awesome. I think that Wagner is just being greedy and being somewhat of the typical baseball player hypocrite. Wags - "I want lots and lots of money" Stros - "Here my son, take our money and pitch well" Wags - "Waahhhh!!!!, we need more good players! Our team stinks!" Stros - "Well my son, you wanted lots and lots of money and we gave you lots and lots of money. Now we have no money for other players so we have to settle for some Zahn guy" Wags - "Who is Zahn?" Stros - "We still dont know but he will be your teammate next year"
I stand corrected. I think 2000 he sucked but he was injured so that is excusable. Also, saves aside, his record was 2-5 last year in non-save opportunites. Those losses must have soured me. Overall, he is good. I'm just a dick when I hear players b****ing about salaries. I don't care...sign the freaking guy. Give him what he wants. We'll have him and Bags with a few other good players we may lose next season when they start comparing their salaries against players from the Yanks and Braves. All players understand these days is what I'm worth based on what everyone else is making around the league. However, with no salary cap, that is hardly fair. Everyone can just say look at how much so-and-so makes on the Yanks....your telling me I'm not as good as him? Or that guy on Atlanta? I deserve at least as much. For teams like theirs, they can afford to sign many high-dollar players. This is why baseball needs a cap more than ever. Player salaries are out of control. As a fan, I'm disgusted. My love of baseball is dead. Surf
I think the 3 yr. - 25 million dollar offer is more than fair...I'm a fan of the stros like the rest of yall. But if he thinks this way, I say trade him or whatever...We are not NY...baseball's economic/financial situation stinks in general. There has to be a limit on how greedy is greedy.
Get real dude. In all honesty Alou is an injury waiting to happen at 35 and Vinny had 1 good year. We are a MID-MARKET team folks and this is what mid-market teams do. Set a budget and try and fill the appropriate holes with the $$ we have. I agree that we are going to lose RBI production, but we have some of the best arms in the NL with Reynolds, Miller, and Oswalt. Besides the Astros, I HATE BASEBALL!! 1. Bud Selig is a joke. 2. The Yankees buy whoever the hell they want. 3. All MLB players are HORRIBLY overpaid. 4. The game is slow and boring. Who can honestly tell me that they can watch an entire game on TV??
