I don't really believe you can divide the world into two kinds of people, but sometimes it's useful, even as an oversimplification. Here are two kinds of people I see on this site these days: Wafer fans and Battier fans. Wafer fans like to see athletic displays and the creation of something from nothing. They like players who can take the ball and singlehandedly create a dunk or a pretty jump shot. They love hops, speed, and degrees of difficulty. They love highlight reels and box scores. Battier fans like old-fashioned team basketball. They like players who perform above their athletic ability, spacing the floor correctly, executing their fundamentals, taking charges, diving for balls. They value all the plays that don't show up in the box score. They love guys who make their teammates better. I'm a Battier fan. You can show me all the video you want of Shane stumbling around in the post trying to make a play when everybody knows he can't. You can lay out the most compelling case on paper as to why no team can hope to win in the playoffs with three guys on the court who can't beat their man off the dribble or create baskets by themselves. I don't care. I just love guys who play like Battier. And I'll tell you till I'm blue in the face that Battier is the best of them. Wafer? You can have him. He's the antithesis of Battier. He's the guy who goes 8 for 8 and everybody's talking about it the next day, and then goes 0 for 8 and everybody quickly forgets how bad he sucked that night. He's the guy who gets on the highlight reel because somebody else, usually a Battier, set a pick for him or made the great pass or stole the ball at the other end and handed him the outlet on a platter. It galls me to see so many people here pining for Wafer at inflated cost while badmouthing Battier. Guys like Wafer will always be overvalued, and guys like Battier will always be underappreciated. It may be that with Yao out and McGrady done, Battier no longer fits this team. If so, I hope Morey trades him to a contender. Even if he ends up in another hellhole like Memphis, I'll follow and root for him. I can't say that for Wafer.
LOL - what do you do with people like me who like them both? I love Battier, loved the trade for him wanted the team to draft him etc.... And I like the potential of Wafer, and the exciting attack the basket mentality he brings. I like the balance between the two, and loved seeing them starting together....the yin and yang. DD
How about the Trevor Ariza's? I like an athletic player who can play defense and thrive in an organized offense. If Trevor's the middle ground I suppose I like a little of both then.
I'm a Battier fan but I think regardless of his intangibles you have to average atleast 12ppg in the 35-40 mins. he gets in a game to be a true asset.
I am definitely a Battier guy. But am also of the notion that you can only have so many battier type guys on a team. You need a few Wafer type guys albeit without the ego and airheadness, on your team. You have to have creators that draw double teams. Battier will never be doubled. We have that with Yao and Tmac but when Tmac went out and Ron Ron proved not to be as effective in that role, Wafer served well for a while. If he only would have listened to the coaches more and tried harder on D he would earned himself a decent contract this year. But I guess it goes back to your point. if he would have been more like Battier I would have wanted him back and I am a Battier guy.
pointless thread... I don't understand the hate that wafer has been receiving. The kid has skills and he comes cheap. Think about it this way...you love shane right? well how do you think the rockets would fair if that had an entire roster of shanes? A shane type player at pg, sg, sf, pf and center...do you believe we would have a shot at winning it all? I don't think so. Like DD said you need balance. Wafer brings a combination of skills that no other player currently on the roster has. Brooks has a similar skill set but he does not have size. Sign wafer
I like both, but given a choice between one or the other I'd drop Wafer in a minute. Athletic ability in the NBA, specially in wings, is a dime a dozen. Shane's smarts and hustle is refreshing to see in a prima donna league. There is a reason why Wafer was a 2nd round pick that has seen 4 different teams in as many years. There is a reason why RA sent him to the locker room in the middle of a heated 7 game series in the 2nd round. There is a reason he has yet to be signed by anyone else during the off season. He has the tools, i'm not sure he has the professionalism and the bball IQ to know how to use them. Both have their flaws and both have their strengths. That being said, I believe any GM that has a championship team would love to have Battier in the fold. I don't think the same can be said about Wafer. I would trade both of them in a split second for players that could improve our team in the long run (specially since Shane is getting up in years). Both remains role players and neither is a star in this league so neither can be overvalued. However, of the two, Battier, while lacking dunks and athletic ability is by far the better of the two players.
I'm not a Wafer fan, his negatives are bigger than his positives.He could play a role if he works on his mistakes. Battier has positives and is underestimated,but some people simply refuse to admit that he has weaknesses as well which can't be covered by his hard work,and intangibles. His road playoff performance on the offensive end was anemic,which was a contrast on how he played at home. Defense and smarts isn't enough. DM should trade him to a better team,he will look much weaker now that he doesn't have Yao or Artest to help him out.
I appreciate the dedication and commitment to the fundamentals of the game, the willingness to step in front of a 6'8'', 260 lb. forward and take a charge, and the sound, technical perimeter defense displayed by a Battier-type player, but he'll always be under-appreciated to the naked eye because he lacks what the casual fan has come to cherish in NBA players: rim-rattling dunks, behind-the-back passes in transition, and blocks in to the second row. It's a shame, but ESPN has trained the everyday fan to appreciate such aspects of the game because they're constantly showing highlight reels of LeBron's explosive dunks, alley-oops to Kobe, and other Top-10 worthy plays. They're all about flash. Why do they ignore a Scola or Battier-type player sliding over to take a charge with under a minute left on the clock in the 4th quarter? Even though the play may have caused a complete shift in momentum, they'll still show the contested, off-balance three pointer knocked down on the other end. But, an athletically gifted guard who attacks the rim with confidence and has the ability to pull the trigger from anywhere on the court stirs the emotions of fans, and causes them to rise out of their seats and high-five their buddies after Wafer has thrown down a tomahawk dunk in transition. It's not that one is better than the other, because GM's across the league search for a steady combination of both elements of the game. A Battier-type player serves as a great compliment to a Wafer-type, and true fans of the game realize the significant contributions of Shane Battier: whether it be knocking down a spot-up three pointer in the corner to keep the defense honest or locking down the opposing team's most gifted player. Battier's basketball IQ is through the roof, just as Wafer can probably jump through the roof! It's just that the 14-year-old kid sitting on his couch watching an NBA game has been trained to fall in love with the uber-athletic, slashing combo-guard. I'll always jump off of the couch after a monster dunk in the lane, but I sit in awe at times admiring Battier chasing the likes of Kobe or B. Roy playing exceptional defense, slicing around picks to make sure he has his hand placed perfectly in front of the shooter's eyes to obstruct his vision.
I dont think any basketball fan is that polarized in what they enjoy watching. I'm a battier fan, and I enjoy watching smart plays. Nor could I deny the good feeling of watching a passionate player doing well. In the end its the same archetypal argument of O vs. D, flash vs substance, technique vs talent, brain vs penis.
Sorry Will, but guys like Wafer and Battier are both overvalued. I like your great prose about Battier, but I'm sure you've noticed no one is beating a warpath down to Houston asking for Battier. I think Wafer is overrated, but Battier? If Battier wasn't a rocket, there is no way in hell we would trade for him. Take off the homer glasses, man. Get cerebral all you want... if teams can afford to consistently leave you open even in crucial playoff games, you suck.
I like them both and think you need some mold of both of them on a winning team (maybe a smarter version of Wafer) ... but give me one to choose and I'm taking Battier all day.
