VW Passat V6 vs. Kia Optima SX

In advance, TL;DR

I didn't want to bump the last thread again, so started a new one. I test drove a Optima SX last week and bumped this thread to discuss.

I've done more test driving - new Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata. I have not test driven the Mazda 6 (just doesn't appeal to me for whatever reason), or the Nissan Altima or Honda Accord (both of which would be comparable, but are coming out with new models in the next 12 months, and am not interested in buying end of model year).

I found the Toyota Camry to be lacking overall. Just kind of a boring car on the whole. Don't get me wrong, the V6 had a lot of power - has even been clocked at sub 6 0-60, but still just felt like a boring ride on the whole. The Sonata is the sister car to the Kia Optima. Of the two, the Optima drives much much much more like a BMW, while the Sonata drives much much much more like a Lexus, imo. The Sonata felt like a boat. The Optima you could really feel the road, had tight steering, etc. Plus, the Optima is cheaper.

So I've narrowed it down to the 2012 VW Passat V6 versus the 2012 Kia Optima SX.

I am probably going to do a 3 year lease. I don't drive a ton, so could do a 12k miles/year lease, and am 50/50 on probably wanting to trade in for something else in 3 years anyway. Some people will say if you lease you aren't earning any equity / owning anything. Newsflash - a car, any car, depreciates, significantly. If you are likely to move on to another car in the short-term anyway, leasing is the way to go.

Here are my thoughts:

VW Passat V6


Gallery
http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear...r_of_the_year_volkswagen_passat/photo_01.html

The new Passat was named the 2012 Motortrend Car of the Year. It's has a somewhat bland exterior look. It's not horrible, and will likely age well. The part of the look that has the Audi feel actually looks very refined, but head on, there's no real sense of excitement.

The interior is very refined. I'd be getting leather, but not the highest end package. Definitely has a luxury feel. It's got a good amount of space, is well equipped and comfortable.

The drive is outstanding. I read a review recently that noted the base 5 cylinder drives almost as "boring" as it looks, but the V6 really shines... and it does. Motortrend clocked the 0-60 in 5.7... but more than just straight-line 0-60 feel, it handled superbly, really felt like a luxurious sports car. Very BMW-esque in that regards (having driven a 335 and M3 regularly about 10 years ago).

I have not haggled on price yet, but have been told the current MSRP is $31,635 with the ability to probably get it down to $30k, on the version as I equipped it, which includes leather seating and upgraded sound/nav system.

Aside from the boring look, the issues I have remains VW reliability and warranty. If I lease, much less of an issue. But if I buy, or wanted the option to buy later, something to consider. They only offer 3 year, 36k warranty bumper to bumper and 5 year, 60k on the powertrain. Given some of the issues people seem to have with them, this is a concern. The other issue is gas mileage. The base car gets better mileage, but the V6 is 28 highway/20 city. Not horrible, but not great. Again, if a lease, not a huge deal, because in 3+ years I anticipate cars will have made another step with regards to fuel economy and I can move on then. But if I wanted to buy, again, less reliable with worse gas mileage.

Kia Optima SX


Yes, this is the Blake Griffin car. And yes, it's a Kia. High $20ks for a Kia? I know, right. But they offer you a LOT of car for that price. And people now love Hyundai's. Kia is owned by Hyundai. In some regards, it is Hyundai's cheaper brand. But with the Optima, and where Kia might be going generally, is to be more of a sister - brand, then cheaper brand.

The SX is basically comparable to V6's. However, it's a turbo-charged 4 cylinder, so gets better gas mileage, at 34 highway, 22 city. The Passat drives a little faster and better, but the Optima SX is no slouch. It's got 274 hp, does 0-60 in just over 6 seconds, and has a real solid feel for the road. Again, unlike the Sonata turbo, which feels like a boat, the Optima has nice, tight steering and real sporty feel. Which I like. I'm going for a luxury sport type vehicle here. But again, not as good as the V6 Passat. The Optima is a front wheel drive, and also reviewers and owners alike haven't been super impressed with the standard tires... apparently they don't grip as well as a higher end tire, but I guess the average user isn't drag racing, and Kia had to save cost somewhere.

The exterior styling of the Optima is great. They stole an Audi designer, and he's really designed a beautiful, fast, aggressive looking vehicle, as opposed to the Passat's more boring look. Will the Optima design age well - not so sure, but it steals a lot of design cues from Acura and Audi, imo, which all seem to still look solid.

The interior doesn't feel quite as luxurious, but still feels very well appointed. In fact, it actually is better equipped, with driver and passenger power seating, with memory positions (Passat doesn't do memory), a panaromic sunroof (Passat doesn't have the panaromic), heated and cooled seats (Passat only heated), heated/cooled steering wheel (Passat doesn't have at all), voice-command sounds system (Passat doesn't have) and bluetooth connectivity for the iphone/android (Passat only has the UBS connection, which Optima also has). But even with all the extras, the Passat still feels a little more "luxury" comfort.

As I noted, the SX drives great. I test drove again today, and was up to 115 mph on Highway 71 here in Austin with no problems at all. Slowed it down to 60 to put it on cruise and felt like we were crawling. It doesn't have quite the on-rails handling that the Passat did, but feels much better than the Sonata or Camry I test drove. Given my 5 mile commute, and limited highway driving, it should be enough to make me feel happy when I do get to push it, but not care most of the time.

Also as noted, it gets better gas mileage. It certainly didn't today when I was pushing it, but when I reset the mileage meter and drove normally, it was getting low 30's mileage, which is great.

I haven't fully negotiated the price, but I believe I can get them down to $28k - $28.5k on price, AND they are offering $1k more on trade-in. So it'll be about a $2.5k difference in price.

And they have the longer warranty. They give you a 10 year, 100k mile powertrain warranty, and 5 year, 60k bumper to bumper. So almost twice the warranty period.

The negatives: It's a Kia. People, including the Passat salesman, are quick to point out, do you really want to pay $28k for a Kia? Well...no, but I want a mid-sized family sedan, all decked out, with great performance, a nice look, a solid warranty and decent gas mileage at under $30k... and low and behold, Kia is the only car that gets you there.... But still, it's a Kia. I'm not sold on reliability with them yet, because who knows? But at least they back it up with the longer warranty. What about resale value, though, if I wanted to buy? And lease payments will be based on a residual value of the car, which if they have lower resale value will mean worse lease terms. Also, as great as it looks, I may be more at the point in my life where I am more suited to the boring family sedan.

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I know some will say why not get a used Lexus/Acura/BMW, etc. Valid question. One, I do have an aversion to used with meaningful mileage (i.e. 20k plus)... it's a stupid, nonsensical aversion, but I have it anyway. I could have bought a used tv, and a used computer, too, and saved money... but I didn't. I do live in a used house, but you can't win them all! Second, I'd want to be comfortable with the remaining warranty, etc.

With regards to new cars, both drive much better than, say, the Lexus IS250, which is probably the closest price-wise of any step-up in luxury competing brand. Meaning, you can't get base model's new Acura's, Infiniti's, BMWs, Lexus' at the same price. For the base versions of those comparable cars (TL, G-series, 3-series, IS), you pay a lot more and get less. The base automatic IS250, for example, starts at over $34k. To get the upgraded sounds, interior, nav, you are at just over $38k before ttl. This is for a better branded car, but one that is slower and performs worse.

Now, I have looked at used IS350, BMW 335, Acura TL Type S, Audi A4 3.2, etc. and you're right, at 30k+ miles, for a couple of year old car, it gets in the price range we're talking about. And maybe that's a better deal than the Kia. But those cars also get worse gas mileage, and again, older, less of warranty left, etc.

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Thoughts from the BBS's car aficionados?



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None taken, as I noted, I liked the VW a lot. I test drove a Taureg about 5 or 6 years ago, and was equally blown away. It felt like a Porsche Cayenne... because, well, it basically was very similar (same parts, etc.) without the badge.

The Passat V6 drives that way, too. A crisp, European style on rails feel. It drives like a BMW. Heck, it's FASTER and drives BETTER than the M3 or M5 of the late 90's... that's how far the mid-size sedan market has come.

But the reliability/lack of warranty is a concern.

Was that a concern to you?

 

If I'm leasing reliability is less important though still important, as I don't have time to be at the dealers constantly.

I'm not super snobbish. I don't mind the Kia inferiority complex, especially if I know it's a he'll of a car bought cheaply.

I am concerned about real issues - not well made, poor value, Kia's have this problem or this problem. My guess is their realiability will continue to improve over the next five years, slightly lagging Hyundai.

If I could wait another year I would. But my trade-in will need some semi-expensive maintenance and new tires in the next 12 months, which I know they are not discounting on the trade in. I just told them the tires are in good shape... Their trade in prices are comparable to private sale. Moreover I need to take advantage of the current trade in price relative to where it will be a year from now, with extra mileage.