vspan: NBA nearly destroyed me, but I no longer hate Van Gundy's lies

i have a thought...if you hadn't had such strong feelings about Van Gundy. or if this guy would have played for another coach...you'd hate his ass. he does not seem like the kind of person you root for at all. that's not criticism. i just read this and think this is one of the poorest showings by a pro athlete i've ever read.

 

I don't have a problem with Spanoulis leaving the team. Never did. The Rockets didn't invest a lot into him, so him leaving the team was never going to hurt the franchise. He did what was best for him, and ultimately it ended up being the best for us as well.

Spanoulis had too many reasons to go back to Greece, and I fully accept his decision to do so.

 

yeah. his mommy and because his pee-pee hurt. Plus he couldnt hack it.

 

For christ sake this stupid obession has to end. He's gone why can't it just stop there?

 

A few things:

1. In a Chronicle interview Spanoulis said there were not enough practices for him to prove himself to JVG. Now in this interview he supposedly says that he kicked ass in practice all the time? Confusing.

2. I could see the scrubs beating the starters in scrimmage. Starters are told just to break a sweat - not to get hurt - so they would not be playing vdery hard. Scrubs, on the other hand, have to prove themselves constantly and don;t have to worry about getting tired or injured for real games. Besides, TMac said that Novak is the best shooter he has ever seen in practice so he probably drains from all over the court. Of course, for VSpan to think that would mean anything suggests that he is not very smart. Kind of like when Rudy beat up all of those guys in practice but could never get into a game. He was five foot nuthin', one hundred and nuthin' but he had heart. He also got a sack. VSpan, unfortunately, never recorded a sack.

3. JR Holden was a better PG in the Eurobasket tourney (he actually played PG full time - shocker). That dude could be an NBA all-star, too...if only he could have made it off the bench during NBA summer league.

4. I think we can safely say that VSpan as a rookie was not better than Cassell as a rookie, DaDa.

5. Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Many pages of ha for me to read.

 

It's very easy. First I do not mean the NBA 272 minutes do not count as if they never happened. I mean they do not count towards metrics stats. Sam Fisher used an NET PER stat image which he apparently does not realize does not count.

If he would look at 82games.com, Hollinger stats, plus minus, net plus minus, net PER, etc. he would see that Spanoulis is on no NBA lists anywhere other than at the team stats. He is never on any league stats because it does not count unless 500 minutes. Apparently he cannot grasp what is written all over the sites he keeps citing.

This is because the stats do not count unless the player plays at least 500 minutes. Less than that it only gets listed on team stat.

This is because in the history of the NBA it has been historically recorded using all stats in the league's history that with less than 500 minutes the stats have been completely flawed when compared to years the same player played over 500 minutes.

When players have played 500 minutes their per 40 minute numbers have historically projected similar in all years.

But when they play less than 500 the numbers always project either much lower or much higher and have always been thrown out.

If some "experts" here knew anything about the stats they would not keep citing them, because they keep making themselves look stupid.

Now as to the 235 minutes of EC 2007.

I never claimed they are worth more than 272 minutes of NBA. I simply said what is fact. The NBA considers 9 games of EC 2007 to be a legit sample size to compare, even more so than Euroleague.

As I said, if you would look at it, some NBA players did better like Gasol or Welsch.

Others like Parker or Nowitzki did worse. Historically the average has been that per 40 minutes there has been a very small increase in production for NBA players in
EC.

This is because it is the superstars of each country playing.

Everyone here is bragging about Scola's performance in the America's Tournament.

But as many people pointed out, that same team from Argentina would have been only the 9th or 10th best team in the EC.

Why on earth would Scola's showing be praised by fans here against vastly inferior competition while Spanoulis' against vastly superior competition "does not count "?

And of course they have both played well against the US so this would also be a very poor cop out argument.

As to where that data comes from, it comes from the same exact data Hollinger uses. Except for the EC the percentage of field goal drop and points drop is half, because the competition is twice as good.

Hollinger drops 12% for field goals and 20% for scoring from Euroleague. This is based on the historical stats data that has shown this to be the average percentage difference between Euroleage and NBA. There is a 30% drop in PER.

However Euroleague is all players on club level in the 24 team Euroleague.

European Championship Eurobasket is the superstar players from each country.

Of course it would be higher competition playing Team USA than it would be playing the Seattle Sonics.

Same thing with difference between Euroleague and EC Eurobasket. Of course it is painfully obvious most fans here do not even know the difference between a European Championship or a Euroleague Championship.

Since the EC is twice as hard as the Euroleague the equation used is because historically the data shows 6 percent drop in field goals and 10% in scoring and 15% in PER.

It is historical fact the FIBA Europe players all throughout NBA history have by STATISTICAL FACT averaged 18% MORE rebounds and 31% MORE assists in NBA than in FIBA.

Now if you doubt this you need to actually look at the damn stats. Look at the damn stats and actually try to dispute this.

4 assists and 8 rebounds in FIBA = league LEADER.

Sam Fisher apparently is the only person on Earth that fails to grasp this....

See Scola can actually rebound but everyone says "he's a bad rebounder" because they know so LITTLE about basketball they don't even realize in FIBA you get a lot less rebounds.

It's simple, less missed shots = less rebounds. WOW the idiocy of American b-ball fans knows no end.

The assists is absolute FACT. Yet Sam Fisher keeps bringing up assists numbers in FIBA.

Sam Fisher are you even aware that 4 or 5 assists in FIBA makes you Magic Johnson or John Stockton?

No of course you don't. Why don't you actually check what players average in FIBA in assists.......no wait you despise facts and accept only your own 1984 Orwellian world.

In FIBA if an assist is going away from the basket it does not count. It has to be heading towards the basket.

In other words vast majority of every assist Hakeem ever had would have never even been counted in FIBA.

Also in FIBA there is no assist if the player hesitates or dribbles or makes an individual offensive move like a turn around or head fake or up and under, etc. after receiving the pass before scoring. In other words, in NBA when Rafer Alston dumps the ball into Yao Ming and Yao turns and shoots it is an assist.

In NBA when Rafer Alston throws the ball to T-Mac and he heads to the basket, dribbles, and scores it is an assist.

In FIBA it is NOT an assist in either category. In fact most of Nash's "Amare spoon feeds" would not even count as assists in FIBA. Most of Stockton's pick and roll assists to Malone would have never been even counted in FIBA.

Rafer would have had about 1.5 assists a game last year if NBA used FIBA rules.

But the glorious GOD of all b-ball knowledge Sam Fisher keeps citing FIBA assists and FIBA assists to turnover ratios for purposes of his "factual arguments."

Of course Sam Fisher knows this is the case as many people have pointed it out to him but this doesn't matter to people that use the same brainwashing methods that political leaders use.

Sam Fisher is supposedly a lawyer, well 95 percent of politicians are lawyers so yep no surprise at all Sam Fisher is a politician and obviously a Repuglican because he uses his brainwashing and it actually works on certain people and then he openly and brazenly and rudely and crudely brags about it. If he were an Undemocrat then he would not be able to brainwash and then brag about it with cusses and insults.

Only be able to laugh behind doors.

Now since you brag so much about your stats knowledge durvasa check the NBA player's stats in the EC. Some come out about the same per 40 minute, some better, some worse.

Even some of the best NBA players like Parker and Dirk can have horrible games and look totally owned. You think the Warriors owned Dirk? See some of those games. Parker had a couple games where he looked like he would be not even a good college point guard.

The defense is THAT good. Of course it does not "count" according to people here.

These metrics are used because this is based on all NBA history stats what player production went up or down between EC and NBA and averages this.

Now people need to understand what the EC is. The FIBA Americas is like an exhibition almost.

The EC is the grand daddy of ALL Euro ball.

In Europe it rates as follows.

1. European Championship

Big gap

2. World Championship

Big gap

3. Olympics

Big gap

4. Euroleague Championship

Big gap

5. ULEB Championship

Big gap

6. Spanish Championship
7. Greek Championship
8. Italian Championship
9. Russian Championship
10. Israeli Championship

After that they are all considered pretty much crap at National and National Cup levels.

To Euro ball the Eurobasket is the equivalent of the NBA Finals.

It is many times more important than the Euroleague Final Four. In fact, it is basically what makes or breaks a player's name recognition and his star status in Europe. It's the same as Frazier said, "Regular season make your name, playoffs make your fame."

See American fans look at the Olympics and WC's as nothing much at all and America's as a freaking joke. It's all about NBA Finals. BEST TEAMS, BEST PLAYERS, BEST competition.

In Europe that is the Eurobasket.

These players spend their whole life waiting for it. Rasho, Dirk, Kirilenko all said it is MORE important to them than the NBA Finals!

They don't even give a damn about Euroleague Final Four.

The level of play is MUCH higher on average than Olympics and World Championship.

The only good teams missing are Argentina and USA but in the Eurobasket almost EVERY team is good. In Olympics or WC's there are a whole bunch of crap teams that waters it down in competition level significantly.

Even that being said and Yao failing to get to the medal round averaged 25/10 in WC's and 25/9 in NBA and 25/10 in playoffs hmmm nothing at all similar about those stats . He played against competition on average MUCH worse than at Eurobasket.

According to the NBA stats "gurus" here how they explain the FIBA Yao is 25/10, the NBA regular season Yao is 25/9, and the NBA playoff Yao is 25/10?

I mean since according to them FIBA automatically quadruples every player's game and stats.

Let me guess statistical anomaly right?

How well did Parker and Dirk do in the Eurobasket? Hmm...........again actually better regular season NBA stats, lots of "statistical anomalies" happening.
According to fans here these FIBA stats are "ridiculous crap and so are the metrics data to compare to NBA."

Yeah well in a court of law the supposed lawyer Sam Fisher would get owned like no other on this.

10 or 11 teams would wipe the floor with teams like Puerto Rico or Mexico or Canada or Brazil.

Spanoulis' upside is better than Mike James.

Spanoulis has a higher upside than Brooks.

Spanoulis is better than Lucas.

Spanoulis is better than Alston.

But we got Steve Francis so why do Rockets fans act so damn abused and used by Spanoulis? It's absolutely absurd.

But bottom line is for next year Francis is better for the Rockets.

The Rockets don't need him and he got Luis Scola.

He MADE the team so much better. Yet all people do is b**** about him. And there is no end to the crap about his game either. He can play.

If anyone here saw the 3rd quarter against Spain in the Eurobasket they would know damn well he can play. More upside than Brooks, Alston, Lucas, James.

Spanoulis absolutely went insane on that Spanish team with NBA'ers Pau Gasol, Juan Carlos Navarro, Jorge Garbajosa, Jose Calderon, Sergio Rodriguez, Rudy Fernandez, Marc Gasol (yeah what a team of complete "Euro trash" as so many here like to phrase it ) in the 3rd quarter. You think he went off on Team US? You should see that quarter. It was one of the most incredible things I have seen in international competition. If you cannot see the Manu or Nash comparison it is imply because you have not seen that game.

The Greek players like Diamantidis and Papaloukas became selfish greedy ball hogs and cost Greece that game. They suddenly froze Spanoulis out after he single handedly destroyed Spain. And their lead went to a loss.

Those so-called "true point guards" looked like complete garbage in that game compared to Spanoulis.

He must have made 8 possessions in a row in that quarter where every score for Greece was either his exact one on one spoon feed or his own one on one score. It was every bit as dynamic as ANYTHING I have ever seen from Steve Nash.

Right there in Madrid, Spain he had 15,000 Spanish fans in absolute SHOCK. It was an all-world performance that I have rarely seen the likes of.

To think of Rafer Alston doing this is absolutely LAUGH FEST MATERIAL. Anyone who saw that quarter of basketball and thinks Rafer Alston is better than Spanoulis or even as good as Spanoulis is nothing but a complete........

In fact this how the ESPN guy covering it put it:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=EuroSemifinals

By Chris Sheridan

Memo to R.C. Buford in San Antonio: You are going to rue the day you decided to allow Vassilis Spanoulis to leave the NBA (after you acquired him earlier this summer from Houston for Jackie Butler and the rights to Luis Scola) and return to Panathinaikos in Greece.

Spanoulis was a force for Greece on Saturday in its semifinal match against Spain, scoring 24 points on 10-of-14 shooting with five assists to carry his team's offense on a day when Theo Papaloukas was a nonfactor and Dimitrios Diamantidis had his worst game of the tournament.

And again remember the 5 assists because of FIBA rules in NBA would be more like 12 assists from what I saw.

He can play but it does not matter the Rockets don't need him and ended up being better through him wanting to leave.

So why in freaking HELL do so many people here feel the need to non-stop bash this guy?

I have never seen anything like it. He is by far the most hated player ever in Houston, Pippen doesn't hold a candle to it and why? What on earth could these people possibly be smoking?

The final thing all it did was bring us Scola. If not for Spanoulis we would still be without our PF.

And yet people STILL feel the need to bash Spanoulis and STILL cannot even admit he has talent? This is just absolutely ridiculous and HONESTLY.......


It is eerily close to the way Yao was bashed a couple years back. That REEKED of racism and so does this.

Durvasa if you want to actually be able to figure out how to judge the FIBA Europe players maybe you should actually use some useful stats rather than just constantly patronize them without even actually as is obvious even checking them out.

It's quite hypocritical from someone who brags so much about his "stats expertise."

 

I think you may be right about that, actually I probably wouldn't care one way or the other if he weren't on the Rockets.

No question about that, you are correct.

The argument was about who was more NBA ready. I would liked to have seen V-Span get a chance to get comfortable in the NBA and play for a coach that would give him a chance to play his style, but it didn't happen for whatever reason, so, can't argue about rookie years...Cassell had a good one....V-Span...not so much.

Cue the Donkey Fisher one liner.....

DD

 

well cassell didnt have jvg slowing him down...

 

Holy sh-t, I never would have guessed that our good friend and #1 Sura Bard Rockets Dynasty is one of the multi-headed hydra of B-Ball Scientist/Kill Bill Pana.

Come to think of it, now it makes tons of sense regarding the mythical Labors of Sura-cles. Sura is a greek-ish sounding name, and google tells me that that “Sura was a well known oracular centre in Lycia”

I did not read the Homeric epic of a post above from Rockets Dynasty/BBall Scientist/Kill Bill, but it is quite the gem. I apologize – if jopatmc is the Seabiscuit of Spanoulis donkey jock strap weaving – You are Secretariat and he is Alydar. You are Eohippus, the dawn horse. You are Pegasus, the mythical beast. You are the Alpha and the Omega. You are the Platonic form.

L. Ron Hubbard has returned to save us all. Save us L Ron!

 

I knew that one. I must use a burro athletic support since I'm abnormally large in that region and regular supports don't fit!

 

With all due respect, this is the funniest thing I've read in this thread, which is saying a lot. Obviously, you spend little to no time in D&D. Not that there's anything wrong with that! Sadly, my doors are open, but I am laughing in front of my LCD.

Since we're beating the poor horse beyond death and over the river Styx, I was an early Kill Bill supporter. He played like pure, unadulterated crap when given the chance... in the NBA. Considering that the Rockets ALSO play in the NBA, and not in a basket, that's what I am forced to go by when measuring his performance. It made me sad, because Greece is one of my favorite countries, and I longed to return for an island vacation and chat with the locals about Billy's great career with the Rocks. Instead, I'll have to avoid the topic like George B. avoids press conferences.

 

Your memory fails you a bit. The main argument was you and Sam about NCAA vs Euro and who was more ready but your wording was odd so I came in and asked you, skill by skill who you thought was better as a rookie. From my memory (search is off) you said rookie Cassell was only a better long-range shooter (VSpan being a better passer, defender, penetrator, etc). This was before the season had started.

 

Which then of course, begs the age old question: "Why Sura no pass to V-Span?"

 

Damn, another 10+ page thread about VSpan? You know what? This is worse than the YOF vs YOF-haters battle a couple of years ago. Hey, at least Yao was on the team and he's the #1 pick.

Anyways, my guess it that all the VSpan loving has a lot to do with JVG hating. VSpan is just an excuse to bash JVG, which is kind of weird. There are more than a few good reasons to bash JVG. Why choose VSpan, who has proven to be dumber the more he opens his mouth.

 

thats a legit point.

 

and that's normal.

 

That was actually a decent interview until he started talking about who he beat out in practice. So now we can say VSpan lied to us? It's really hard to beat anyone out in practice when you're on the sidelines because
JL3 took your playing time. What a loser this guy is. Seriously, I don't get why people keep posting threads about him unless it's thanking him for getting us Scola. He just keeps whining and whining. You would swear he was an NBA superstar the way he talks.

 

That made me laugh.

 

Quoted for genius.

If you don't laugh at SamFisher's posts, you need a sense of humor transplant.

 

So I love Bobby Sura as a player. What the hell is wrong with that?

This Sam Fisher isn't a comedian, he's a clown. It's sad that so few people get the difference.

You don't think any number of people here could post endless non-stop immature "jokes" about him?

Come on. It's not funny when it's just the same joke OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

The "beat a dead horse" seems a favorite expression on this forum, well that is exactly what Fisher's "comedic genius" is. It's just the same joke over and over and over and over and over.

Yeah he's a real comedic genius alright


And on the Bob Sura issue, why the hell does this guy get the right to bash on people so hard for liking a certain player?

I have seen numerous people get banned for doing the same thing. What makes Sam Fisher untouchable? What is he some kind of sugar daddy for the forum or something?