VSPAN leads all scorers at the half

I do believe V-Span is better than what he showed while being a Rocket. I also believe that JVG is a control freak and never let this guy spread his wings and do what he does best, thus he never show his true potential. I don't believe that V-Span is better or even close the being on the same level as Alston. Rafer is tough as nails, fought for is job and backs down from nobody. V-Span on the other hand ran home with mommy and quit.

BTW, Rafer stats IMO don't show what he actually brings to the table, and how the team preforms when Rafer is running it.

 

DD,

You are right, I was making a general comment, not responding to a specific statement. My bad, I should have done a general "Post a Reply" rather than "replying" to a specific post.

I also wasn't commenting either way on the personal stuff between you and Sam.

What I was commenting on is your continual attempts to spin every fact to somehow validate VSpan. It just like one of those tired ESPN message board "Kobe is the greatest player in history" threads. You just state a bunch of opinions that can't be proved and nothing anyones says (no matter how factual) is going to change your mind. As soon as someone disproves your point, then you just throw another one out there.

You are obviously never going to change your mind or at least admit to doing so. You're arguments have been hammered by multiple people so the odds of you changing anyones opinion is slim. So what's the point?

If you think VSpan is an "NBA talent", whatever that means, then great. So are the dozens of guys that get signed to NBA contracts and released each year.

You really like VSpan and you think he's really good...we get that. Unfortunately most people don't agree with you, so can you just accept that others don't agree and stop with the silly spin doctoring? If you haven't noticed you haven't been very successful in getting people to agree with you.

 

I don't know what everyone believes. I do know that negative people are usually the most vocal, it leads to a silent majority.

Also, I would not say the level of BBall knowledge or understanding of the subtelties of the game is the same for all posters on this board......but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

If people don't like V-Span or threads about him, don't bother coming into them.....let em die.

Statistics about players can be read a myriad of ways....some say V-Span SUCKED at shooting his rookie year, but others would go, well, he sucked at 3pters...but at 2pters he had a higher percentage than Rafer.

I like the way the guy plays hard, attacks the basket and makes the pass to the cutter on the pick and roll, and I believe that he would have learned to tone down his mistakes as he got familiar with his teamates.

I do think people overeact to him because he left Houston, even the announcers talked about him being the key to the team and the best player on the Greek squad.....but if you read the venom and vitriol spewed by some people he would be down around Ryan Bowen's level......

Anyway, I have no issue with people having a different opinion that is fine, I do take issue with personal attacks....that is over the line, IMHO.

And, I would suggest that if people don't like V-Span, stay out of the V-Span threads.



DD

 

I would also suggest that if you are going to continually make yourself look like an idiot then you shouldn't complain when Sam Fisher calls you an idiot.

 

LOL - again, that is an opinion. And it is unwarranted and childish......just because someone's opinion about a player or style of play or what is a quality play is different does not make them an idiot....heck, what if they are right and the people disagreeing are actually wrong? (which is what I think).

Ever hear the saying "If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything."?

I think a lot of people have never played the game, never coached the game, and enjoy watching it, but a good many of them lack the understanding of the subtle nuances of it.

For instance, how important setting a proper screen off the ball is to the overall flow of an offensive set, or how setting that screen sets up multiple future plays where the screener slips it.

Or how to come off of a screen as a PG with the ball on the dribble and when to hit the cutter so that they can then either score the ball, or take advantage of the defensive rotation to hit another cutter on the baseline.

Or when to come off the screen and take the midrange shot or continue into the lane setting up shooters on the wings.

These are things that V-Span does fairly well, but all most people see is a guy who sometimes has turnovers due to his aggressivness at attacking the basket.

And, calling someone an idiot only makes the person who is making the accusation look like a fool for not having a substantive argument, it is easier to mock than to discuss.

And again.....I respect everyone's right to their opinion......we all have em, and that is all this is anyway...

But just because a majority of people feel one way does not mean that they are right....George W got elected like that for a 2nd term, how do you think those people feel now?



I just feel I see things differently than a lot of people.....which gives me a different opinion...especially about PGs.

DD

 

Which is what makes it so amusing/ironic when you grasp onto the superficial aspects and ride them till the cows come home, and then steadfastly deny that they exist.

Your hyperbole about Spanoulis, before/during/after his NBA flame-out - had nothing to do with your measured observation and deep understanding and everything to do with cheerleading - much like the way you are being factually destroyed in this thread. Your observations of him weren't based on nuance, they were based on superficiality and cheerleading. You saw him get a steal in some FIBA game, so you pronounced him "the best perimeter defender" on the Rockets when he was here.

That is comical in its silliness - he was not the best perimeter defender, he was quite likely the absolute worst - he admitted as much after the season when he conceded in an interview/whine session that he was unable to play man-to-man defense and suggested that the best defensive team in the NBA should switch to zone defense (which no NBA teams play for more than 5%-10%) in order to compensate for his shortcomings.

That's an incredible admission of incompetence (and laziness) from an NBA player, and embarrassingly audacious. I don't think I've ever heard anything like that even from obviously lazy bums like the Stromile Swifts of the universe.

Fine I shouldnt have reacted so angrily yesteday, but I stand by my point that you want people to listen to you and pay attention so you bring it on yourself here when you repeat the same discredited arguments thousands of times and then present yourself as a sage.

 

Apology accepted.

And I don't care one bit if people come in to read, I enjoy watching the guy play.

As for the rest of your post, I too was dissappointed to see him speak about needing help understanding the NBA game and defense.

I am not immune to the facts of his departure and his lack of fortitude in sticking to his contract, and proving his naysayers wrong.

But, the way I look at it is that he got sold a bill of goods, got caught up in a bad situation between a GM and owner who favored a different style of play than the coach, and the coach in the last year of his contract, who is already risk averse to begin with, being even more so due to those circumstances.

I think V-Span acted childish and should NEVER have gone to the press, I think he knew exactly what he was doing and that it would get back to the US press.

I believe that at the end of the year, when he said he wasn't coming back it was due to frustration, and that if the Scola trade did not happen, Morey would have forced him back, and I think V-Span would have been much more productive under Adelman as he is more likely to utilize V-Span in a manner in which he could be more successful, IMO.

I don't necessarily blame JVG, I think he did what he thought was right to win every single game, that is what he does.....I disagree with him not developing young PGs when ours are so putrid, but hey, I understand his methodology.

And the reason I get into arguments about V-Span is I think he can play and gets a bad rap from people.....it is funny to see so many people wanting him to fail....why? Because he got mad and whined his way out of Houston?

Who cares? He did what was best for himself.......and the team got better with Scola because of it.......why the continued hatred?

This thread was not about V-Span and his days in Houston, but his play in the Olympics, he has had a VERY good tournament so far....his play against the USA was not as good as his first 2 games, but he was playing against the best the NBA has to offer...and held his own......he didn't dominate his matchups, nor was he dominated......he held his own....

To me, the guy could play in the NBA....if he wanted to....but apparently he no longer does....fine.....just going to cheer him on in international play, because I like the style of play he brings....hard nosed, attack the basket, don't back down and make nice passes to cutters type of play.

I like it.

As for the sage part...I am just a fan......whose opinions are based on my experiences playing, coaching, and refereeing the game, it gives me a different view than other people whose opinions are based on their life experiences....doesn't make either of us right or wrong, they are just opinions.

DD

 

LOOOOOOOOOL. "Rafer sucks", "JVG sucks", ad nauseum.

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds!

You bark like a rottweiler most of the time, offer olive branches and "take the high road" when you repeatedly get proven wrong and slammed by the facts and poor vmac showings. Gets kind of old after a while.

 

That's a nice little fantasy, DD, but based on V-Span's track record, he'd more likely have not tried very hard to learn Adelman's offense (which is "War and Peace" compared to JVG's Dr. Seuss offense), then complained that he wasn't given a chance and insisted the team would be better off changing to an offense that wasn't as intricate and hard to grasp.

You continue to blame JVG for V-Span's failings, when the fact is that any new young player entering the league has to expect to change his way of doing things to some extent to work his way into the good graces of his new coach and earn some playing time. Spanoulis didn't bother to do that. He never EARNED any more minutes than what JVG gave him. In fact, it could be argued that JVG gave him TOO MANY minutes based on what he was getting in return. Eventually, Van Gundy got tired of Spanoulis' lack of effort in adapting his game and sat his lazy, arrogant ass on the bench where it belonged.

I said this way back when, but it appears V-Span arrived stateside for Rockets training camp not knowing ANYthing about JVG, his style of coaching, his playbook, his defensive sets, etc. That's unforgivable at this level -- and then he expects to be handed playing time on top of it?

The only person responsible for V-Span's lack of success with the Rockets is Vassilis Spanoulis. And maybe Mama Spanoulis.

 

Wow. I totally forgot about that! That is truly pathetic on many levels.

That is hilarious.

 

Uh, those are opinions, and not getting personal with other posters and calling THEM names.....two entirely different issues.

I have no issue with people saying V-Span sucks, they are entitled to their own opinions, I just happen to think they are wrong.



But I promise you I will not call them an Idiot for believing what they want.

The only fact is that there is no PROVING anything in matters of opinion.

Rarely in matters of opinion are people PROVEN wrong, what happens is people choose which opinion best suites their own belief and then try to downgrade people with differing opinions....that is what gets old.

And taking the high road is much more classy way than calling someone an idiot.....

Lima Time,

Who were you and why were you banned?

Because you talk a lot of trash for someone who joined THIS MONTH......

VSpan plays tonight again, let's see if he continues to have a strong tournament.

DD

 

<BR>
What is it with these moderately talented Euro PGs? They come over here, can't crack the starting lineup of an NBA team, then run back home with their excuses all in place.

Does anyone recognize this tune?

No, not V-Gina. That's Sarunas Jackofficius, formerly of the Indiana Pacers. He didn't stop there, though, adding that some Pacers players froze him out (naming Fred Jones), because they were jealous of "the European boy coming over and getting the money."

My guess is that these guys are under the mistaken impression that their Euro leagues are playing NBA-level ball, or something close to it. They're stars over there, and expect to be here as well. When they fall short (or woefully, miserably short in V-Span's case) and go back home again, they don't have the testes to admit that is was just HARDER THAN THEY'D EVER IMAGINED AND THEY COULDN'T CUT IT.

C'mon, EuroPGs. Either bring it hard, or quit wasting our time. But don't think anyone believes your sob stories about the uncaring, unfeeling NBA coaches.

 

posted for truth

DaDakota,

I've also recently seen you say,

"I'm not obsessed with VSpan. I just like to poke fun at people."

For some reason, I cannot find that quote now. Did you edit it out. It's in either this thread or the USA vs Greece thread. Maybe someone can find it for me.

Much liike aelliott says above, if your intent is not to obsess over VSpan, but rather to push peoples' buttons to get a reaction out of them, then don't complain when SamFisher calls you an idiot, because you are basically admitting to doing ridiculous spin doctoring to get a reactions. Trying to annoy people (poking them, pushing their buttons) opens you to the same treatment, and you must accept it.

In the real world, if your intention is to push someone's button, you are not going to get any sympathy if they yell at you. It's an annoying tactic of a high school miss popularity and trolls on the internet. Why should you get sympathy here for acting like a hs b**** trying to get reactions then saying "oh my god, chill out girl."

Cut the crap about "you're getting personal Sam Fisher". I have no sympathy for your behavior in threads like this where you spin and admit to just trying to rile people. You M.O. is to get SamFisher to yell at you. And you know, he doesn't freaking care. He reads you like a book. If you don't think so, then you truly are an idiot.

 

I said " I like making fun of people who said he could not play"

You are correct......but that is not making it personal, do you see the difference?

And I didn't call them idiots......or fat idiots....or....any other personal comment.

Now let's get this thread back on topic....V-Span the former Rocket is playing well in this tournament.

DD

 

Dude, I am not screwing up your thread, I am in agreement with you about VSpan.

In today's game he didn't play that well, had some good passes, but didn't shoot all that well and had a couple of turnovers, he sort of looked disinterested.

DD

 

If V-Span signed with the Rockets prior to the 2005-06 season, I wonder if there is any chance he would still be in the NBA today. With all the injuries the Rockets had that season, JVG would have been forced to play him a lot more than he ever planned to much like he did with Luther Head (a rookie that season), a guy who I know that many on this board would now like to see traded away.

I think that the 2005-06 season would really have been V-Span's best chance to develop his skills with the Rockets due to the injuries that plagued the team. One other thing is that if V-Span was ever going to get a fair chance to develop his skills in the NBA and show everyone what he can really do, he would have to have played for a bad team, much like what we got to see Rudy Gay do with the Memphis Grizzlies.

I wonder what DaDakota thinks of my assessment of V-Span, as to why he isn't in the NBA right now.

 

You have a solid point. Against China & Angola, there was reason to doubt Team USA's pressure would cause as many problems with the better teams. But after the Greece and Spain games, I think it's obvious that guard play in the NBA is at another level. In the NBA, the kind of gambling defense, double-teaming and ball-pressure being played by Team USA would be sliced and diced after a few minutes. Guard play (besides spot up shooting) and athleticism are what makes the NBA the greatest basketball in the world.

DD, just one thought: If you admit to baiting people ("poke fun"), quit complaining when they hit back with nasty comments. If you deliberately start fires, don't insult everyone's intelligence by complaining about the heat. When you ramble on and on and on and on in the face of fairly obvious truth, people get tired of it and will tell you in negative ways to shut up because they are tired of hearing it. Read a book on human nature; you may learn something. You make good points sometimes but I must say you are one of the most annoying posters here IMO. And don't bother telling me to ignore you because I do most of the time. Your whining this time was too much. I don't mean to be harsh but this is my 2 cents.

On the topic, their next game against China doesn't count. Let's see how V-Span does in the elimination games. Does anyone have the time-of-day schedule for the quarters/semis/finals (in Central Time)?

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the guards being Euros......it has to do with a style of play that suites their games.

Plenty of US guards complain until they get into a system that fits them too.

I think there are few superstars that can play any style, maybe top 10 percent or so, then the next 90 percent, are successful based upon how they fit in with a team, or style of play.

If you are a guard though, that is a free agent, you would think you would RESEARCH the team you are signing with before going there.

V-Span should have never signed with Houston as long as JVG was the coach, it just was not going to work for either of them.

Maybe now the players will be smarter about where they sign.

DD

 

Even if he had signed a season earlier? To this day, as far as V-Span and his PT with the Rockets is concerned, I will always wonder what might have been for him if that PT of his would have been significantly higher during the Rockets' injury-plagued 2005-06 season as opposed to 2006-07. I at least think that he would have played in more games than the 31 he played in during the 2006-07 season. I'll keep on believing that he joined the Rockets a season too late to see lots of PT and develop his game, but as we know, hindsight is 20-20.

Two years ago, he chose to sign with the Rockets when he did because it was the time he felt ready to take that step of playing in the NBA.