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VP Debate -- Biden vs. Palin

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Seconded. Romans 13 it always is!
     
  2. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    Actually, IIRC her turn was up.... but nice turn of the phrase on Joe's part.
     
  3. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    That was the text poll... unscientific.


    Their real poll had Biden at 58%.
     
  4. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Because the moderator (hahaha) did not allow her to rebut.
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Because she had never met Biden before. Someone that you know and work with and call by first name on a regular basis isn't someone you need to ask again if you can call them by the first name.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    not always:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonhoffer You'd have a hard time convincing Dietrich that Paul meant that he should submit to govt authority when govt authority was telling him to turn the church into a pulpit for nazi propaganda and its arayan mythologies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther_king

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu

    and truthfully, Jesus was hung for challenging authority...for suggesting he was king of a far greater kingdom than Caesar's...and much of the early church was martyred for refusing to bow down to the emperor. non-violence was certainly the response though...and in that way they were submissive to government authority.
     
  7. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    And no follow-up questions were allowed. Meaning, when Palin refused to answer a question, the moderator couldn't call her out on it, which in turn means it was a dog and pony show more than it was a debate.
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    The Democrats took over the Dallas County government in 2006. The Republicans are still in charge in Harris County.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    We'll see how long that lasts.

    Republican judges are stepping down...two of them I know just did for sure...there's some quirky rule that says that if the governor (a republican) appoints a replacement, the seat doesn't go up for election.

    The Democrats are hitting the local elections hard. They swept through Dallas what seemed like overnight in 2006.
     
  10. Faos

    Faos Member

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    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...al/stories/100308dnpolfactcheck.d58e86ba.html


    A closer look at claims by the vice presidential candidates

    08:44 AM CDT on Friday, October 3, 2008

    The Associated Press

    WASHINGTON — Republican Sarah Palin criticized a version of a Barack Obama health care plan that doesn’t exist and Democrat Joe Biden clung to a misleading charge about Republicans and big oil when the two clashed in the vice presidential debate Thursday.

    Some examples of facts cast adrift in the debate:

    PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama: “94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction.”

    THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by FactCheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.

    ———

    BIDEN: Complained about “economic policies of the last eight years” that led to “excessive deregulation.”

    THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.

    ———

    PALIN: Criticized Obama’s “plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program” for health care, and added: “I don’t think it’s going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds.”

    THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama’s plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn’t turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he’d set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.

    ———

    BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage “will go straight to the insurance company.”

    THE FACTS: Of course it would, because it’s meant to pay for insurance. That’s like saying money for a car loan will go straight to the car dealer.

    ———

    PALIN: “Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell.”

    THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control. BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and “wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut.”

    THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it’s misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn’t single out any one industry for that benefit.

    ———

    PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.

    THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.

    ———

    BIDEN: “As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry.”

    THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: “Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.”

    ———

    PALIN: Said Alaska is “building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America’s largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets.”

    THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, “It’s not a done deal.”

    ———

    PALIN: “Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year.”

    BIDEN: “The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she’s referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way.”

    THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush’s tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others. In the March 14 budget resolution supported by Obama and Biden, McCain actually did not vote.

    ———

    PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration “will support Israel,” including “building our embassy ... in Jerusalem.”

    THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush’s, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel’s occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city’s status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
     
  11. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    Not particularly funny because her actual strategy wasn't any different from what's in that flow chart. She refused to answer most of the questions and basically decided to talk about what she felt like talking about. If we are looking at it as a debate, she came out looking ignorant.

    A moderator enforcing debating rules would have exposed Palin for what she really is.
     
    #552 Zboy, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
  12. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    Well it's funny not in the sense of a caricaturization, but more so because of the laughable reality of how she actually debated.
     
  13. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    Agreed.
     
  14. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    But did not support a tax reduction, which Palin clearly states.

    but increased taxes on some - still a valid point.

    How much people are making isn't the point. It's still a tax increase. Again, valid point.

    I don't even support tax cuts but it's sad to see the editorializing and selective answering reported by "FactCheck.org" via AP.
     
  15. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Here it is for those too lazy to click on the link...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

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    I love the little "Oh **** -> Do you know anything about this topic? -> Yes! -> Wait, really? -> No!" circle. :D
     
  17. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    Palin was great...Biden was good...No harm done...now it's up to the big dogs...
     
  18. michecon

    michecon Member

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    That's one complicated flow chart. If she was able to follow that chart, she has enough intelligence for me.
     
  19. Faos

    Faos Member

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    They also left out Biden's butchering of the constitution. You'd think a guy who has been in office that long would know better.
     

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