and this has what to do with vincent young? why don't we really make it fun and start arguing Bush-Gore 2000 some more? The 2002 Simms/Major Controversy Moratorium . . . catch the fever!!
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/fb/fbh/1210418 "It's not something that's automatic," Keith Young said. "He will go in assigned to play the position of quarterback but as far as being redshirted, he is going there to compete and if the opportunity presents itself to play as a freshman, then we're not going to rule anything out. Coach (Mack) Brown didn't rule out anything, and it's not automatic that he'll redshirt. Playing at a D-I (Division I-A) school, the guys compete and the best man gets the job." Said Young: "If I can learn quick, (Brown) is probably going to use me as a backup or something. But if I don't and eventually redshirt, I don't mind that. I'm looking forward to doing whatever I have to do. I'm going to compete, though." The roster spots are up for grabs although Simms will probably start the first game. If Simms doesn't perform I hope VY gets some snaps. Mack can't avoid a QB controversy because of who Simms is. Hopefully he is taking notes on how Dan Reeves used Vick this season. Simms has played enough college games to be labeled a disappointment. He has not had big game success a la Dorsey, Grossman, or Clausen. I'm not basing my judgment on one game (Big 12 title game). Just look at his "impressive" TD to INT ratio against ranked opponents. # 22 A&M...Simms 3 tds, 0 ints / Farris 1 td, 2 ints # 11 Ore...Simms 0 tds, 4 ints / Harrington 2 tds, 1 int # 3 OU...Simms 0 tds, 4 ints / Hybl-White 0 tds, 0 ints # 17 CU...Simms 3 tds, 0 ints/ Pesavento 0 tds, 1 int # 10 CU...Simms 0 tds, 3 ints/ Pesavento 1 td, 1 int +2 tds, +6 ints Expectations aside, he throws too many ints in big games for any QB. That is disappointing.
on an entirely different note... did anyone else ever find it peculiar that Simms rarely put up big numbers, even against crappy teams? His normal days work against a pushover seemed to be 250 with 2 tds and no ints. Respectable, but it seemed like Applewhite crossed the 300+ yard threshold far more often. Yeah, I know, Simms didn't always play in the most pass happy offense. But he just didn't put up the most fabulous #'s for a QB lucky enough to have the receivers he did. Even against inferior competition.
Oh yeah, I forgot the simplest argument against Cat . Simms came to Texas rated the #1 offensive high school player in the nation. If he's anything less than the #1 college junior in the nation, then he's underperformed his expected value. Since he's not even close to the #1 junior, he's a bust.
I'm not convinced that he isn't the #1 junior in the country. I was there for Simms' debut against the Ags, and he was terrible. If terrible is 16-24, 343 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, then I'll take a terrible QB anyday. did anyone else ever find it peculiar that Simms rarely put up big numbers, even against crappy teams? His normal days work against a pushover seemed to be 250 with 2 tds and no ints. Respectable, but it seemed like Applewhite crossed the 300+ yard threshold far more often. Major never played with Cedric Benson. I still don't count the Hail Mary as an excuse because he got sacked for a total of 20 yards on the two previous plays when he had plenty of time in the pocket (maybe no one was open but at least throw it away) and therefore put us at the 50 on the last play instead of the 30 where a FG would've been possible. Simms was in the pocket. Do you suggest taking an intentional grounding? always pawning the problem off on greg davis (also major's OC, what a coincidence), while fun, doesn't work all the time. All of Major's fans were b****ing at GD when he threw three interceptions in the first half against Washington. Doesn't work both ways? That possibility does not exist. Towards the end it was almost comical because you just expected horrible things on any throw over 5 yards. So a player's performance in a game is dependent on your expectations? Just because you or other fans expect something doesn't make it necessarily true. Please tell me you're kidding. I'm dead serious. Read my post again for reasoning.
Dorsey plays in a better offense that has a somewhat imaginative coordinator. Chris is only running the plays that come in from the sidelines. Put Simms in Dorsey's place, and Miami doesn't lose a step. They might even be better.
Applewhite hadn't started a game in over a year. How can you not expect him to be a little rusty? It had nothing to do with the offensive coordinator. When the game was on the line, he didn't make mistakes. The fact is, despite the rustiness leading to the 3 INTs, Applewhite was still in control of the game, indeed infinitely more in control than Simms was against Colorado.
Everyone makes mistakes in games (except maybe Joey Harrington!). The difference is that when Dorsey or Grossman or Major or nearly any other good QB does bad things, they also do good things (yards, TDs, etc). When Simms sucks, he flat out sucks -- he does nothing of value on the field. He doesn't throw TDs, he doesn't move the ball, and he turns the ball over. Basically, he completely and totally implodes. In the case of the other QB's, a good team surrounding them can cover up the mistakes. When the QB completely implodes, the team can't overcome that.
UT is better since Simms got there. Its not an easy job to be QB at UT when there is a popular QB already in place with experience under his belt. Its fair to say Simms has not been spectacular, but there are other factors that contribute to UT's few losses during his tenure (no Cedric against OU for example, or dropped TDs against Oregon). But now they've got the full package coming into this year and we'll see what we see about his performance. However, if NOTHING else, landing the #1 offensive recruit placed UT back on the list of top schools, paving the way for other top recruits. He's raised the coverage and profile of the school by coming to UT, and he's handled the QB controversy pretty well. Same goes for Mack Brown. It took Tom Osbourne 20 years to win his first title. Do you guys think its easy? How many titles has Bobby Bowden won? One? How many did Steve Spurrier win? One? Would you have fired either of those guys? Some UT fans got really spoiled really quickly considering how bad they'd been for a long long time.
great post, HayesStreet. I hadn't thought about the benefit UT has reaped simply by simms choosing to attend there. even if he doesn't get it done on the field, his profile has been high enough to help the university. I even think that may contribute to some peoples' lack of affection for him. . . ie. "we don't need no damned yankee to come help the profile of The University". pride usually goes before a fall, so I'll just choose for the time being to be glad he did choose to come; I think, like you said, it helps the overall UT football cause. if he doesn't come to UT, maybe we don't get cedric, maybe we don't get Vince. there's no way of knowing, but the truth is that chris was the 1st #1 offensive player in a loooooong time to choose Texas [that I know of]. UT fans should just be happy we are where we are. we're in a really great position right now. btw, HS, is your moniker a reference to those old commercials where Elvin would flip the b-ball back over his shoulder for one of those cheesy camera tricks? man, I hadn't thought of those spots in forever. <laughing>
Damn, you're right. Major never played with Ced Benson. Of course, he played with a guy named Ricky Williams who won the Heisman, but who's counting?
I think Simms' biggest problem isn't the INTs, it's what happens after he throws them-- they get run back 60 or more yards, often for touchdowns. An interception is a momentum-turner, but it's ten times as bad if the return completely changes field position and a hundred times worse if returned for a score. I still say that if he had not thrown that first INT against Colorado in the Big 12 title game, he wouldn't have thrown any. We'd have punched it in, gone up 14-0, and the rest of the game would have looked pretty much exactly like the Fiesta Bowl.
Everyone makes mistakes in games (except maybe Joey Harrington!). Joey Harrington threw 5 interceptions in Oregon's loss last year to Oregon St. The game was for the Pac 10 title and the Rose Bowl. I really like Joey, and I hope the Texans get him, but even he imploded once in a big game situation. It happens to most everyone. Damn, you're right. Major never played with Ced Benson. Of course, he played with a guy named Ricky Williams who won the Heisman, but who's counting? The majority of Major's 300 yard games came in his sophomore season when he was Big XII player of the year. Ricky was already gone at that time. Hodges Mitchell was a quality RB, but he definitely didn't command the touches that Cedric does.
damn don't ruin us applewhite fans' fun as we try to rub our rightness in a little more by bringing up vincent in a vincent thread.
His performance may not be dependent on my expectations but the decision of whether or not to bench him sure is. That's all you can go on. At that point, I (and many other UT fans) expected bad things everytime Simms had the ball and that was the reason to want him benched
yeah, red, you should probably try to find a thread about vincent young. you see, the thread name "Vincent Young commits to UT" is actually code for "Gather Here to Beat a Dead Horse Some More". it's an easy mistake to make, I know. if you look at "How good is Vincent Young?", I think that thread still remotely pertains to the player who has not yet played a down at Texas, as opposed to the player who won't play any more downs and the player those who love the first player love to hate. clutchcity.net can be confusing sometimes.
Gee, and all along I thought this was a thread for people to tell people what they should be allowed to post in a particular thread, not a thread about Vincent Young.
