Exactly my point. His worst crit came from his former teammate. The media had been asleep for years on his whole big game ineptness. Anyone else who multiple number one picks had been given up for in one of the East Coast rough media/fan base areas and played as inconsistently as Eli would be on worse grounds than David Carr and Joey H. Now my own opinion it isn't just a White thing. I think the Manning pedigree has protected him in this case, except maybe with his teammates
Tiki Barber was the only one criticizing him? Puhlease. What about his big brother who was constantly criticized for never being able to win the big one? Or Favre being criticized for his comments the past few offseasons. Not to mention, there has been plenty of talk about Favre's performance which is why some in the media thought he should've retired. And Rush Limbaugh was fired for his comments. If you want to argue there are racists out there who give black QBs a harder time than I won't disagree with that. To say that the media in and of itself is more critical to McNabb because he's black is absurd.
Wait.. what? Big Ben was very good in the playoffs. He sucked his first year as a rookie, but in 2005 (when they won the Superbowl), he played the top 3 teams in the AFC (all on the road) and the top seed in the NFC, and had a QB rating of 101. He certainly sucked in the Superbowl, but in the 3 AFC games, he had 7 TDs and 1 INT (no fumbles). His QB rating in those 3 games were 148, 95, and 125. He was efficient and averaged about 9 yards per attempt. Against Denver, he didn't even have much of a running game to help him. The Superbowl was a terrible performance, but I don't know you can spin his overall playoff performance as anything but very good, especially for a 2nd year player.
There was a little tracktion on Peyton (and his post-hoc blaming of teammates for failures didn't help), just like Elway and Marino in their primes about not winning the big ones. But it was a far more dismissed view in the national media than accepted--the accepted view was that their teams had major flaws and those guys did well to their teams as far as they did--exactly what should be the accepted position on McNabb. He was fired, but he hardly represents an insignificant minority viewpoint. And yes I believe had McNabb been White there would be less degree of questioning his inherent decision making and leadership abilities, and a more predominant viewpoint like with Marino/Kelly/(young)Elway/pre-superbowl Farve that his team was just overmatched. McNabb is a hall of famer and has been one of the 3 best QBs the last 8 years, and carried his team far farther in the regular season and playoffs than they would have with anyone with the possible exception of Manning or Brady, and I do say possible exception as those guys always had better running games supporting them. Yes I think racial perceptions and stereotypes are part of why he doesn't have the slack one would expect relative to his performance and accomplishments and why many still question some inherent qualities (leadership, decision making). Also, looking back at his statement on HBO (I have the quotes on last page I believe), which part do you not agree with, and if you don't agree with it, would you call it either outragous or ludicrous?
Points taken about 3 good games. He has had 3 good games, 3 awful playoff games. His team managed to still win two of those 3 terrible games, including a Superbowl game, in spite of him.
lets just look at the subject of this thread compared to the number one draft pick taken the year before, alex smith. alex smith and vince young had very similar seasons as seniors, both led the nation in passing efficiency, both aren't known for arm strength. No one criticized the Smith pick which was very suspect, and even though smith played well down the stretch last season, he isn't playing well this season. dude was the number one pick in the draft and no one ever criticizes him. the only difference is smith did well as a student, and scored highly on is wonderlic. but that doesn't exempt him from the criticism.
I'm not so sure Alex Smith doesnt have arm strength. He had a cannon in the game I saw. Of course he couldn't hit any receivers, but he threw the ball pretty hard.
the other similarity is smith and young ran the same offense in college, which was also considered a liability for young.
I think there were plenty of questions about Smith before the 2005 draft. The widespread thought of that draft is that it was one of the weakest in a long time and Smith was considered the top pick by default. Besides the RBs that were taken, his only real competition for the top spot that year was Rodgers who fell all the way into the 20s. I guess I just don't watch enough Sportscenter, but I must be missing this constant barrage of criticism that McNabb receives. Bottom line is that he has sucked in three of his first four games this season. Maybe he should switch positions if he doesn't like the criticism. The QB of the team will always take the most heat, regardless of race. Other than the Limbaugh thing (and I'm not sure why the fact that he was fired is dismissed, other than it hurts the argument that the media's racist), I haven't heard any extra scrutiny from the media towards McNabb than has been given to any other QB regardless of skin color.
actually I believe donovan was trying to say something else. if you play badly you will be criticized no matter what race you are. I think there is more scruntiny on some black qbs and more pressure to win. I think there is still a little apprehension because its still a relatively new phenomenon in the nfl.
I just think he's speaking to a small select group of people who still believe that black QBs can't succeed like white ones. I don't think the media or the vast majority of fans feel that way. We want results and, to a certain extent that doesn't include race, we don't care who acheives them for us. He may be feeling more pressure, but that's because he's in Philadelphia and he's made it so close so many times, but couldn't win the big one.
Here is where I disagree with you. I agree with you there are a minority of outright racists, in the media, or otherwise. There are some, but if they are public, yes they are fired or are outcasts (that is not to say there isn't a significant minority of persons who actually side with them but stay quite). What I disgree is that some stereotypes of African American QBs of being less cerebral/heady/leaders don't still color a much larger fan and media base. You don't have to be a racist to be influenced by sterotypes that in tern color our perceptions--this is true for most all humans though hopefull most of us do what we can to keep them in check and try to recognize/correct them. Thus I didn't have a problem at all with what McNabb said--and I personally think he is right, that race does have an influence on the perceptions of him relative to other QBs who happen to be White, that it is an extra layer on top by being a less prototypical QB. Not all that indifferent than Yao IMO. Do you don't think he is critizied more than comparably effective players because of stereotypes about his race/ethicity/naitonality? Do those things not color interprations about his game and his actual court impact.
Maybe he is right. That doesn't make VY "uneducated on the issue" because he disagrees. Also, didn't the Eagles make 4 straight NFC Championship games? And 1 Super Bowl to show for that? Losing at home twice I believe. When does a QB/team's best player NOT get criticized for losses in big games like that?
But it wasn't that VY said he didn't think it applied to him personally--that he believes he is looked at without any racial bias whatsoever and no racial overlays, VY added that it "wasn't his fight to fight" (see a couple of pages ago I have the quotes). Strikes me as dismissive and not very educated about the whole history of the issue, even if like I said he believes there is no such bias or stereotypes about him (personally I think they are, and it affected the degree he was viewed as a draft project rather than the most promising draft prospect in many years--but he doesn't think so, fine). Yeah, and then I can bring up Marino, Kelly, Tarkekington, or Elway, Farve, S Young or Manning before they broke through. Especially Elway from the latter group, because he was way past his prime when his team won it. If anyone knows McNabb's playoff winning % and playoff numbers compared to Manning, Big Ben, Farve, Palmer and Hasselbeck, I'd like to see it. (could thrown in their Marino, Kelly and Dan Fouts if you wanted to pick older Hall of Famers). My hunch is he compares well with any of these guys.
