Wow, those kids are quite annoying. Best player in the NBA? Comon, that is just a straight up lie. Why you got to lie to DMiles? You don't think he knows yall are sucking up?
A_3PO, I don't remember saying he was going to be a "superstar". I don't even think Latrell or Rasheed are worthy of "superstar" status. They are/were very good players on very good teams who played major roles, who also played on bad teams and stunk it up along with the team. You can't point to 20 ppg and say that makes a good player. 90% of the players in this league can average 20 ppg on a bad team if they are given the ball and the shots. So, that is meaningless. BTW, Rodman only average over 10 ppg one season in his career. And he floundered several times as well. But, in the end, he was still a knucklehead that needed strong leadership and direction to become a very important cog to a championship team. But if he was in a losing environment with less than strong leadership, what happened? He went to pot. You don't have to look at a stat sheet to see "loads of talent" and ability. Just like you don't look at Rasheed's world record of technical fouls and say he doesn't have talent. You don't look at Rodman kicking cameras and getting into trouble in bars and say he doesn't have talent. You look BEYOND the players deficiencies to see the talent. In all these player's cases, they have had serious deficiencies in their on court and off court demeanor/attitude to overcome in order for their talent to grow and abound. There are 2 things required: 1. A player has to want to be productive and use his talent effectively; 2. A player has to be in the right situation with the right leadership surrounding him to be effective. You would have to agree, Darius has never been in a winning situation and he really has never been guided by strong leadership. The Clippers, Blazers, and pre-Lebron Cavaliers were not strong teams. Rasheed stunk it up in Portland, I don't care what stats you throw up. He was a disruption, had a horrible attitude, and was a cancer on a cancerous team in Portland. Rodman, after the demise of the Piston championship teams got himself run out of Detroit, San Antonio, and Los Angeles. But he was a key cog in Detroit and Chicago when surrounded by championship calibar players and coaching and strong leaders. Latrell was most productive under a hard nosed Van Gundy in NY. But he had to be moved after JVG left and the wheels fell off up there. When I said Miles had Rodman like ability defensively, what I meant was, Miles has the ability to disrupt a game from a defensive standpoint like Rodman used to. He isn't the same type of player defensively but he has the ability to disrupt an entire offense with his defensive skills and being able to guard anybody on the floor. But he has the offensive mentality to defer his shots to others and not even look for his own offense. Combine that with the fact that he doesn't care, doesn't want to be in Portland, and you get a 14 ppg, 4.6 rpg, statistical player with bad FT shooting percentages. He is/was not efficient last year because he didn't care; he didn't want to be. You could see it in the way that he played. He wanted out. But I've seen enough of him balling to know and recognize that he has loads of talent. If you cannot see Miles' talent you must be too busy studying stat sheets instead of watching basketball. Yes, is a very inefficient player with a rotten attitude.....................................right now. But he DOES possess the ability to play a much more efficient, team contributing game and be a difference maker if he wanted to and if he had the right front office, coaching, and surrounding teammates to lead him the right way. Yes, lots of teams want Miles without his contract. And the Blazers held on to Rasheed for such a long time because he was making so much money, and they knew he had talent, but nobody would give them anything for him. They finally traded him away for junk and an expiring contract. And no, Portland is not willing to trade Miles for even longer contracts that are bad. Portland is building young and they want cap room to bring in a top level free agent after next season. So, they aren't going to trade Miles for bad contracts. They would move Miles for expirings or they would move Miles for smaller contracts that would be more easily traded for expirings. They know, that just like Vince Carter, Rodman, Rasheed, etc., that when they move Miles, he will start playing at a whole different level than what he is playing at in Portland. They know he has value and they are trying to get something out of him, even if it is just cap space. Tell you what, do you think they would actually trade Miles for Howard straight up????? It should be obvious they wouldn't. They wanted Juwan and our #8 pick for Miles and #30, and #31. They know Juwan doesn't have much left and is going to be almost as difficult to move as Miles.
jopatmc, you used the term "superstar potential" in an earlier post. I'm not looking at a stat sheet. Miles just isn't the player you make him out to be. All of us (including me) have biases about certain players. You have an extremely strong bias about Miles that beyond reason for some of us. I have no problem with that and I'm just about to give up trying to reason this out. Everything you say about Miles could be said about Stro. What he "could" do. Problem is he never has done any of it. All this talk about his talent is a fairy tale. Forget my comment on 20ppg about Spree; don't let that distract you. Spree always was talented and productive. Sheed also. Miles? Nope. This is why I'm willing to look beyond Sheed's and Spree's shortcomings to see what kind of players they are. You have to do that in the NBA. But not all players are basket cases like Miles. A wise man once said circumstances don't determine the person; the person determines himself. To say Miles can only suceed in some incubator basically admits he will never succeed in the real world of NBA life. He is what he is after six years. You can take the boy out of the garbage, but you can't take the garbage out of the boy. And when you put that boy in a nice, sweet smelling bedroom, it starts stinking as soon as he gets there. Whatever upbringing and parenting Miles had may have been rough. If we knew the whole story he could be a sympathetic figure. Either way, when building a basketball team you don't want an overpaid, combustable player who has never shown any sign of improvement or skills. If Miles had actually ever done what you say he "could" do, I would be opened-minded. But he hasn't.
"Superstar" and "Superstar potential" are 2 different things. And no, I am not strongly biased in favor of Darius. I simply think and have thought for a long time that if we could work a trade to dump Juwan and pick up Darius that we should do it, provided we don't give up anything else or provided we gave up Head but got back an asset(s) in return for Head. To me, a straight up Howard for Miles deal makes sense because of Howard's extremely bad fit here and Miles potential to become the rotational player we need in Juwan's place that can actually defend anybody on the court and be a mismatch offensively with his size, ball handling, and quickness. In no way do I want to trade for Darius and keep Juwan or otherwise give up other assets for Darius without including Juwan. I like Darius as a turnaround player, a comeback player if you will, and I don't believe we have seen the best of Darius' play. I think he will be a different player on a playoff team and he has the potential to be a difference maker with his skill set. That's why I keep talking about him. I DO NOT think there are very many realistic trade scenarios that we could get anything for Juwan. If you remember right, I am in favor of the proposed trade to the Lakers for ANY of their expiring contracts for Juwan. Sure, I'd like certain ones of their players but I'd trade Juwan to Charlotte for a trade exception of Charlotte would do it. I'd trade Juwan to the Lakers for any of their expiring contracts. So, let's keep it in context. 1. I am in favor of ADDING Darius if it coincides with SUBTRACTING Juwan Howard. Because I think Darius would be a low risk gamble in those terms. Anybody who trades for Darius is taking a gamble. That much is a given. 2. I do think that Darius is a turn around comeback player if he is moved to a playoff environment where he is not the focal point of the team. So, in that regards, I'd hate to see one of our rivals pick him up and use him against us in the playoffs. Because he is the type of player that can and has given McGrady fits defensively. When Rasheed was 22 years old, he put up 10 points and under 5 boards a game in 28 mpg. In 97-98 at age 23, Rasheed averaged 14.6 ppg and 6.2 rbg in 37 minutes of play. In 98-99, at age 24, he dipped to a very pedestrian 12.8 points and 4.9 rebounds per game playing about 29 mpg. Last year, at age 24, Darius averaged 14 points and 4.6 boards a game, and 32 minutes of playing time, playing on a team that won 21 games. At age 22, he averaged 9 points and 5 boards playing 30 mpg for a horrible Cleveland team. Darius is still young enough and talented enough to turn it around.
jopatmc, good discussion! I understand where you are coming from. Just so you know, last summer I was in favor of picking up Miles if reasonably possible. For my opinion of him, last season was the straw that broke the camel's back. His only potential to be a superstar is in NBA Live or NBA Street. I completely disagree with comparing him to Rasheed, Sprewell or Lamar Odom. Anyway, maybe Miles gets traded and one of us gets to throw an "I told you so" at the other. I enjoyed this debate, which will certainly come up again later.
All players should make a point to have at least one video like this. Given, a lot of pricks out there wouldnt do it.
