I understand...but I'm not even asking average joe to stand up first. I'm asking the mosque leaders, themselves. I'm asking the Imans and clerics to stand up and say, "this ain't us...and we're not going to tolerate it being the face of Islam any longer....these actions are reprehensible and stand in stark contrast to the peace of Islam." I understand the consequences of that...and I understand how easy it is for me to say that. But this is THEIR faith I'm asking them to save...not mine.
I agree with Cohen on this. When a Christian performs some atrocity (specific examples don't really matter), I do not expect Pat Buchanan, Billy Graham, or any other Christian leader to denounce the act, I assume that they feel that way. I assume the same thing of the billion plus Muslims who do not have any ill will towards America.
not asking for an apology... i'm asking them to be outraged by it...that we hear that cry from mosques and from mosque leaders around the world, but particularly those from the middle east. that it's made clear that this won't be tolerated...that they take back their faith, or at least the perception of their faith.
They did a whole report on it and I think they were quite frank after the scandals became widespread that what happened was wrong.
Without hijacking this thread, I would say that, to many, the Catholic Church has seemed to be very prone to dragging it's feet and covering up sexual abuses over the years. I will agree that, of late, there appears to be a move towards more frankness, but this is after decades and decades of dealing with most problems by transfers and hush-ups.
Why would they want to align themselves w/ America? To give you a reassuring pat on the shoulder? What would that serve except to mark themselves as the next target? Would America come to their rescue or give them a pat on the shoulder? NO. They are protecting themselves, as they should. Until the Muslum world has our trust (which will be a generation), we can't expect this kind of support. Besides, Moma always said if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all. So be happy with that.
it's been 24 hours. and i'm still spooked by that video. having masked men screaming allah huakbar on camera/internet while cutting off one of our very own american's head... that really sends a message. i think the closest analogy i've got is the feeling that edward longshanks had upon seeing his nephew's head in a box sent from a sacked york in the movie Braveheart. if they can do that, they won't stop at anything.... if there were those among us who would have negotiated with saddam, there certainly are going to be less of them now willing to negotiate with these guys... it's like 100 years ago, you displeased with the negotiations? you send the envoy's head back on platter...
The D&D section was better off without your input and/or remarks. T_J can be inflammatory, but at least he has a sense of humor about it. Despite our differences, I would probably enjoy having a beer or two with him. I think the only thing I could enjoy with you is my shoe in your ass. If you think your little taunts and ignorant remarks are going to get me to leave you got another thing coming. I was on this board over a year before you. To quote an 80's movie, "People like me, they think I'm a swell guy." My views are well known (T_J called me a liberal "schill", but an informed liberal "schill") and those who have opposing views at least know that I back my posts with two things: some level of knowledge of the subject matter, and a sense of humor. Your posts seem to be misplaced in both areas. Congratulations jersey, you are now the first to grace my ignore list.
This is not a coherant statement since Saddam is not related to these guys in any way. My fear is that too many people will agree with you on this. Hopefully this will expose our War On Terrorism policy as ineffective since it is clear that we are attacking the wrong people in Iraq...and in fact if anything, our policy is fueling this behavior.
Wait a minute... didn't we attack Saddam? Who in the hell then are these people attacking us back and if they're not Saddamites what the hell business is it of their's?
I think another thing to talk about when we want other Muslims to stand up to Al-Qaeda and radical islam let's look who suffers the most at their hands. Despite 9/11, suicide bombings, the beheading etc. Wahibiists and other militant islamic groups have killed more Muslims than they have Christians and Jews put together. For one thing they've been in closer contact in 100 plus years since Wahabiism started, and they consider moderate muslims to be infidels as well. Another point is that the coverage of those deaths narturally doesn't get the media attention that the deaths of America would get over here. So they've lost more to radical Islam than we have, and many speak against it regularly. To expect them to speak out against it louder when it happens to someone else isn't all that realisit. That being said, I do agree with Max that it is a problem that they should probably do more to stop. Those few bad apple muslims destroy the religions name, honor, and fosters distrust by many of those who are lazy to look deeper into the issues. Thus we have someone on this board, who understands little of the facts, and has a solution of going to war against the whole mideast. While a minority, there are more who feel the same way out there. Just like the AG photos, murder, and rape by U.S. soldiers will breed more hatred towards ALL THINGS American by the more ignorant and easily swayed folks who would be future terrorists, so this kind of action breeds misunderstanding ill-will towards Islam as a whole. It is in their best interest to do everything they can to stop it. To go to the counterpoint again, it's much easier said than done. OBL, and Saddam were enemies. If OBL captured Saddam, and cut off his head, it wouldn't make us stand up and say how wrong OBL was. We'd still hate OBL, and most of us wouldn't applaud murder, but we wouldn't make as big of a stink. When we have a people who see an occupying force who has tortured, raped and murdered their own people lose someone to a ghastly beheading, it's not going to priority number 1 to take a stand against that. I understand that the person beheaded wasn't responsible for any of the abuse, and was truly an innocent. It was horrible. But just as certain people aren't able to discern those things among those in the middle east, the same will hold true for them.
Ah hah. A small break through! These guys were al-Qaida. To this day there is no proof there was any connection to these al-Qaida terrorists and Saddam. In fact, al-Qaida and Saddam were stated enemies because al-Qaida's goal is to build a radical Islamic ruling government...which directly conflicts w/ Saddams desire for complete control. (I don't like either motivation but that is irrelevant.) They were enemies. These guys that made the video hate America and will leverage anything as they see fit. They are hoping Americans are ignorant enough to not see difference between the two and drive a wedge in our solidarity. As long as America can't differentiate between al-Qaida and the rest of the Muslim/Arab world, they win.
They are the same people who were against us imposing sanctions on the Iraqi people. They were against Saddam always, but still willing to speak out for the Iraqi people. Currently they feel they are doing the same thing. They are for the Iraqi people, but against the U.S. occupyers. More accurately, power was removed, their is a power vaccum to an extent now, and they are trying to have a say in how that vaccum gets filled. They will fight whoever they have to to get it, and not because the miss Saddam, or ever thought he was a good guy.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi Nationality: Jordanian Born: October 30, 1966 Connections: Member of al Qaeda and associate of Osama bin Laden; affiliated with Ansar al-Islam, terrorist group that once operated a training camp in northern Iraq and during the U.S.-led occupation has been linked to several terrorist attacks. Background: According to Bush administration, al-Zarqawi fled to Iraq from Afghanistan in May 2002 for medical treatment, arriving with two dozen al Qaeda members, and stayed to organize terror plots. Record: Sentenced to death in absentia by a Jordanian court in 2001 for planning numerous attacks in the kingdom; also accused of overseeing October 2002 assassination of U.S. diplomat Lawrence Foley in Amman. Reward: Up to $10 million offered by U.S. government
Originally posted by NJRocket: "Does it make you feel better to verbally attack anyone with a different opinion?" NJRocket, you just love to toss around irony in buckets, don't you? I haven't gotten around to putting you on my ignore list yet. You'll be the only one there. Congratulations.
Thank you for helping to prove that the Saddam and Al-Qaeda had no connection. Northern Iraq was controlled by the U.S. allies, the Kurds. Saddam didn't step foot in that area, thus this only goes to show that the only place Ansar al-Islam could establish a base was in the area outside of Saddam's reach.
Do you have a link? No, that would require that all this have a factual basis. The key is in the Background section - "According to the Bush administration." This administration is not exactly known for being scrupulous with facts.
