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[Video game] Cyberpunk 2077

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by KingCheetah, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Clutch City1993

    Clutch City1993 Contributing Member

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    I wonder if the game would run smoother if it was being ran in 3rd person.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Maybe but they designed the game around being first person which is harder because first person brings to light more poor textures and low detail environments hence why Cyperpunk had to be really detailed up close as you are staring right at objects and walls rather seeing them from a distance from a perspective behind the player model. Hence why games like GTA can get away with lower detailed walls, objects, models etc because you are always seeing them from a distance.
     
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  3. Clutch City1993

    Clutch City1993 Contributing Member

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    Exactly
     
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  4. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    Oh ok, so you haven't checked out the videos or comparisons between the games.

    Here you go:



    (and there are countless more showing other similar things)
    There are things in here like shooting out tires, fire propagation (which also results in firefighters being called...at least in GTA), etc., and not just basic NPC interactions, which further show how more advanced GTA was in some of these systems.

    Cyberpunk's AI and open-world systems are fairly simple and lacking relative to GTA 5 (or even previous GTA games). I do give it props for increased fidelity and whatnot, though between the bugs and some of these other issues, it doesn't really help with the whole immersion thing. It can have photorealistic graphics, high density, perfect lip-sync, and no repetition of assets, but if the NPCs get stuck in T-Poses or they just do dumb things, it doesn't really matter IMO. And FWIW, while I'm sure there are some bugs that make the AI seem even worse in Cyberpunk, it really just feels like they didn't actually develop these systems to be as sophisticated. Or maybe they did, but they had to scrap it all and use some very basic systems.
     
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  5. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    As long as they made this kind of decision at the start, I don't think it would significantly affect performance much. The performance problems with the game definitely lie elsewhere IMO.

    I know the Star Citizen devs had the challenge of trying to unify the animation systems between first and 3rd person (i.e., what you see in first person matches what others see of your model in 3rd person), which definitely is challenging. But AFAIK, Cyberpunk fakes this much like most other games (and for good reason IMO).
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    So bugs. There is fire propagation in the game. Just no firefighting system.

    There is more variety in npcs and more variety in what they do. Glitches are a issue though I actually never encountered a t-pose though I've heard it's common.

    Curious, have you played it or getting your impressions from these type of youtube videos that need click bait to generate revenue that can selectively chose bad things to give a greater perception of an issue or did you actually play it yet?

    What Cyperpunk does signficantly better than gta is "exploring off the beaten path". Since the city layout is far more dense and complex like a jungle rather than a simple grid layout like most of gta5, you just find random locations and cool alley ways with interesting events.
     
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  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It definitely is a hurdle to develop a open world game in first person. You have to care more about labeling and designing art for random pieces of garbage and items and have far more detailed environments overall. It definitely effects performance. It's more ambitious to develop a first person open world game than a third person one.
     
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  8. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    Did you even fully watch all the videos? You responded pretty quickly. This is much more than just simple bugs. Like I said, Cyberpunk is just completely missing whole systems that GTA5 had. In these areas, clearly the game is designed to be less sophisticated than GTA 5. They can fix some bugs and maybe even add more complexity later on, but I don't think it is a trivial bug fix. It is what it is.

    Now, to your point, Cyberpunk does some things much better than GTA5, and those should be appreciated. In defense of GTA5 though, I think some of these things (more fidelity, less repeated assets, more animations, etc) are a result of more powerful/capable hardware. They seem like "easy" (relatively speaking) upgrades, whereas these AI/open world systems are not quite as linked to hardware as other game systems. They just take a lot of hard work, good design, and good programming. It is part of the reason why you get so many complaints about dumb AI persisting across generations, despite the huge leaps in computing power.

    Having said that, I think CDPR is very good at "exploring off the beaten path," or at least it was a strong point of W3. I feel like Cyberpunk is probably top-notch in this area too. Quality of quests, the writing, "exploration", world-building, graphics, etc. There's kind of a theme here, which is that CDPR have already shown that they're pretty good at these things. It probably shouldn't be a huge surprise that these other systems (not found in their previous games) ended up being a bit lacking. Though I was hopeful that given the budget and pre-planning that went into the game, maybe they could make it work. Especially when they seemed to tell gamers that it is something we should expect from the game.

    To answer your question about whether I've played the game, I have not. Feel free to produce your own videos or content that refute the things shown in the videos and accounts from other gamers. Show some NPC drivers actually driving around your parked vehicle. Show bullets deflating the tires in the game. Etc. Or just show some AI behavior that you think is more sophisticated than GTA5. I'll check out whatever you have. :)

    Developing open world games in first person can be a big hurdle, but that's more so in terms of asset creation and gameplay design IMO. At least with more modern hardware (including PS4/XBO), it shouldn't really impact performance that much IMO, relative to other things. From what I can tell from the DF videos, Cyberpunk seems to struggle in high density situations and when streaming in a lot of data (i.e., driving). In fact, in their testing, it seemed they primarily used the 3rd person camera when driving, which is when the game really tanks (at least on PS4/XBO...though I think they said similar dips happen on PC). The graphical and performance issues I see in the game would likely happen in 1st person or 3rd person IMO. You're not getting huge drops because you zoomed in on a wall that would be hard to see in 3rd person or something along those lines. In fact, at least with the driving, it wouldn't surprise me if 1st person mode actually improved performance (not sure if it does though). I suppose an argument could be had that 3rd person might even reduce performance, especially if you can zoom in/out pretty easily, though I don't know if I'd go that far. My overall point is I don't think this really impacts performance of the game. The issues with the game's performance are due to other things IMO.

    Admittedly, I think I actually misread the question. I thought the question was would performance be better if it was designed in 3rd person. Not if you could magically run the game in 3rd person as it currently exists. I think some PC modders did just that, though no idea how it affects performance. It generally seemed about the same to me, though I didn't see any benchmarks or anything (and to be fair, the game probably would have issues with running it that way in some scenarios).
     
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  9. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Cyberpunk looks sketchy AF what a massive letdown -- it's literally 3rd/4th gen level tech. I don't think the core gameplay is going to change much with updates -- lame.
     
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  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    What is 3rd/4th gen level tech?
     
  11. TexasTofu

    TexasTofu Member

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    ya not sure why this even came out on last gen consoles . I understand finacially why they did it dont get me wrong id done the same thing, cyberpunks flop makes me wanna play gta again tbh. hopefully rockstar rushes out a bootleg cyber punk dlc update lol
     
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  12. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Wow 3 patches , last one in February

    https://en.cdprojektred.com/news/important-update/

    Second, we will fix bugs and crashes, and improve the overall experience. The first round of updates has just been released and the next one is coming within the next 7 days. Expect more, as we will update frequently whenever new improvements are ready. After the holidays, we’ll continue working — we’ll release two large patches starting with Patch #1 in January. This will be followed by Patch #2 in February. Together these should fix the most prominent problems gamers are facing on last-gen consoles. We will be informing you about the contents of each patch ahead of their release. They won’t make the game on last-gen look like it’s running on a high-spec PC or next-gen console, but it will be closer to that experience than it is now.
     
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I would rather them just ditch the last gen consoles with refunds for those who purchased the last gen versions and work on some core mechanics and systems in the game such as npc AI that @RC Cola have mentioned.
     
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  14. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    The story is pretty good though on cyberpunk. regardless of the dumb AI.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Exploring the city is also really fun. I waste a lot of time just climbing and finding awesome views and riding my bike around.
     
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  16. RC Cola

    RC Cola Contributing Member

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    Unfortunately, the logistics of it all would make that pretty much impossible. Millions of copies (something like 40%-50% of sales I think?) are for consoles. And as there isn't really a next-gen version (the PS5/XSX/XSS are just playing the PS4/XBO versions), they can't really refund only those with base PS4s and XBOs. This ignores that Sony/MS and retailers probably don't want to give back their cut of this revenue, even if CDPR was OK giving players full refunds.

    If they weren't so greedy, they could have avoided this, but they clearly wanted to get that money from console players ASAP, then worry about the consequences later. Ideally, yes, they would have delayed/cancelled the console versions...and honestly, probably the PC version too. Then worked on the bugs and missing systems. But that wasn't ideal from a money perspective.

    Here's a pretty scathing article from OpenCritic (better version of Metacritic) about the devs, which I don't think I shared here:
    https://opencritic.com/news/2000/they-knew-it-was-wrong-cd-projekt-red-deceived-consumers-anyway-
     
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  17. Xerobull

    Xerobull Salve Dicit Mater Tua
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    I need to get me in on that class action action. Could be a solid $20 in five years. Score!

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    They promise 3 more fixes. So maybe people should just not play it for 2 months?
     
  19. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    are these issues there on ps5 or just last gen?

    and is it worth getting on ps5 as it is?
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Ps5 version is still "last gen" as it doesn't have the current dx12 features that RTX pcs have along with things like less population density in the streets than pc. However the ps5 version framerate and resolution wise are far better than the last gen consoles which are the two largest complaints with the last gen console versions. I heard large segments of the game run around 20 fps which is very bad. The ps5 version is constantly over 30 fps I believe so it's a stable playable framerate.

    There is a free next gen upgrade version coming to the ps5 and Series X if you buy the current gen version.

    I think the "next gen" version(pc version) is coming out some time in the first half of next year for the ps5 and Series X.
     
    #200 fchowd0311, Dec 17, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
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