agree uncalled for telling a grown man to move only because they were having a discussion and he din't like what he heard. at this point DeeJay started imposing his control on Santa not so fast here's the transcript. Can we both agree that DeeJay started becoming hostile towards Santa and continued being hostile even after Santa has already moved? The fact that Santa moved up to the front of the bus clearly showed he gave what DeeJay wanted, showed humility and was embarassed, and didn't want things to escalate. Meds or not/crazy or not, that was a very mature, humble, and sensible gesture by Santa. What else did you expect from Santa? Kneel down? But even after Santa moved, Deejay continued to be hostile to him. Don't you think this was a proper time for DeeJay to shut up because clearly Santa walked away already? DeeJay: "Take yo ass back up there and get the f**k out my face right now." Santa: "Why you bein' so hostile, man?" DeeJay: "'cause.... I'm pissed off." Santa: "Well you better be. It's better to be pissed off than pissed on. I can tell you that..." Santa stands up to move the front of the bus. DeeJay: "You take yo ass back up there right now."
You said that after the old guy relocated, nothing he did after point was wrong. Perhaps you changed your mind on that, as it seems like you agree that he should not have allowed the verbal confrontation to get so out of hand. Physical violence is not justified in regard to rhetoric. It may be justified under the principle of self-defense, depending on the level of the threat. Well, yeah, moral responsibility is what I've been talking about this whole time. I don't deny that the physical confrontation stage of the conflict was initiated by the black guy. That's fine. I'm not denying his right to self defense in this instance. I never said they are morally equivalent, whatever that means. I'm just pointing out that the older guy is not blameless, because many others in this thread were apparently insisting that he was.
Now if this is true, why did he get all upset when he asked him how much to shine his Stacy Adams? Where's Quanell X when you need him?
Yes, this is what happened. Can we agree that if Santa simply moved and chose not to verbally respond to DeeJay's initial hostility as he was moving that the chances of DeeJay continuing to be hostile would have reduced significantly?
I think the he was upset by being asked by the white man of all people. The white guy is a well known trouble maker and instigator.
And yet you apparently have failed to correctly assess what the situation was. Given the situation, EBM increased the chances of him being attacked by choosing to engage in the verbal back and forth. If he moved and said nothing, the situation would have been diffused. In "the real world", people have to be aware of the potential consequences of their actions. "Behaving in a moral manner" depends on it.
Guys, the black man is an actual shoe-shiner in San Francisco. White guy with beard is a well known nutjob in SF. The two knew eachother as they are both street people. Apparently, the white guy even got his fare for the bus from the shoe-shiner. White guy didnt have enough money and got it from the black guy.
do we agree that he responded peacefully to the initial hostility. then deejay again became hostile to him? 1) initial hostility DeeJay: "Take yo ass back up there and get the f**k out my face right now." 2) peaceful/humble gesture. Santa ended everything peacefully here. Santa stands up to move the front of the bus. 3) more hostility. But DeeJay clearly didn't want to end it peacefully. DeeJay: "You take yo ass back up there right now." bad choice for walking away and responding peacefully to someone repeatedly calling you out with violence? So your blaming Santa for his bad choice of being a grown man. can you pinpoint what did exactly Santa say that prompted DeeJay punch him?
I ride through this area frequently... All within a few weeks or so. Not exactly saying that it's like riding through Compton or anything but even in dangerous neighborhoods, it's not like I'm fearing for my life on a daily basis. Public transit isn't like a walking gang war, even in the poorest areas. I'd hate for people to get the wrong impression of buses just because this stupid incident happened.
Got my info wrong. Black guy on bus is not a shoe-shiner. The two men did not know eachother. But, Beard Man did get his fare from a black shoe-shiner near the bus stop. And, Beard Man is still a nutjob.
In this instance, a "bad choice" is a choice the would increase the likelihood of violence. May be you disagree with that, in which case we might as well end the discussion here or you can explain why you think that's not the right way to look at it. But I'll run through it: [rquoter] DeeJay: "You take yo ass back up there right now." Santa: "..'cause you ain't scaring this white boy." DeeJay: ???? Santa: "I'm 67 years old, you ain't scared of me." DeeJay: "I'm fifty!" Santa: "You ain't scared of me! You ain't scared of me!" DeeJay: "Now I'm puttin' my foot up yo ass!" Santa: "I bet you won't! No you won't" DeeJay: "Yes, I will!' Santa: "You'll get a foot up yours." DeeJay: "I'll put my foot up yo ass!" Santa: "This old man'll whip your ass! You better sit your punk ass down!" DeeJay: "Mutha f***ka I'll put my foot up yo ass!"[/rquoter] In your opinion, did Santa's words here make it more or less likely (or no impact) on the likelihood of DeeJay reacting violently? I say more. [rquoter] Santa is now seated at the front of the bus Santa: "You won't do nothin' to me! This ???? tear your ass up!" DeeJay: "Say it again! Say.... say it again!" CameraGirl: "Say it again! Say it again! Say it again, Pinky!" DeeJay stands and walks to front of bus CameraGirl: "Beat his white ass! (pounding the camera) F**k HIS WHITE ASS!" DeeJay and Santa exchange words at front of bus (inaudible) Spectator: "Leave that white man alone, little brother" Santa: "I ain't gettin' up!" DeeJay: [inaudible words] CameraGirl "It ain't worth it, boy! It ain't worth it!" DeeJay and Santa exchange inaudible words DeeJay walks toward back of bus DeeJay: "'cause Ima put my left foot up yo ass!" Santa: I shoulda jumped your ass [???] and I'd slap the s**t outa you!" DeeJay: "What?!?" CameraGirl: "What?!?"" DeeJay: "What?!?" DeeJay walks to front of bus and throws a very weak blow to Santa's chest. Santa stands and powers a left jab, connecting with the DeeJay's nose and left side of DeeJay's face[/rquoter] Did his choice to issue such responses (as opposed to keeping quiet) increase or decrease the likelihood of DeeJay reacting violently? Again, I think they increased it. And if you don't think that question is (edit) irrelevant, do you feel in general that people shouldn't have to consider the consequences of their actions?
how was Santa or any other grown man supposed to respond if someone tells him this in public after already walking away from repeated signs of hostility/aggression?
"In this instance, a "bad choice" is a choice the would increase the likelihood of violence. " So, a "good choice" is a choice that would diffuse the situation and lessen the likelihood of violence. And I've already answered you question. I think he should have moved and not responded verbally. Tell me why you think that would not have reduced the likelihood of violence, or why you think reducing the likelihood of violence is not important.
DeeJay took the like likelyhood of violence from 0 to 50% Santa's response kept it below 50% or same 50% at worst Me: I'll punch you (increased likelyhood of violence) You: No (definitely did not increase likelyhood of violence) Me: have a choice to leave it at that or increase likely hood of violence if he continues
