Very Interesting Q & A with Prince Karim Aga Khan IV

Who is arguing? I just hate it that some people have to go out of their way to insult somebody else's religion.

Growing up, my parents taught to me to always respect everybody's religion. I grew up in India, where I had many Christian, Muslim and Hindu friends. I never felt the need to insult anyone's God.

I just look at is as different ways to achieve what all religions promise - eternal salvation.

 

You say your jamatkhanas are strictly for ismailis, then you attack people for not having the right information about ismailis. How is one to learn about your religion if
1. they cant go to the source.
2. the only source of information about you guys is from converts from ismailism to sunnism. (which im sure you will claim is twisted information)

I have personally been forbidden from entering the Jamat Khana in First Colony. All I wanted to do was get some info for a paper... The buddhist temple on synott, the hindu temple in dulles, almost every church, and every single sunni mosque have NO problem with anyone learning about their religion and visiting their worship areas.

and your claim that non ismailis arent allowed into the jamatkhana is false simply because on june 23rd 2002 at the inagration of the jamatkhana in houston there were many non ismailis present when aga khan gave his speech



You claim that ismailis are muslims, yet when asked what religion they are, the response is usually either aga khani, or ismaili.



You challenged someone to show you where it says in the quran to pray 5 times a day

where in the quran does it say that nonmuslims(non ismailis) arent allowed to enter the prayer area.
Where does it say for you to pay 12.5 dashond (last i checked zakat is 2 and some change percentage)



You argued with someone that ismailis do pray towrads mecca, this is a command from the quran, and i do have a question about that.. isnt it true that the one who leads the prayer faces the congregation while doing his prayer... so the leader himself is going against the quranic command..

No one is insulting your god... its just blasphemous to the other groups of muslims when you claim that aga khan is a god/prophet or anything close to it.

I think we have had a discussion on the beliefs of Ismailis before, and you (your wife) still are to respond to my questions...

 

Guys, guys, no reason whatsoever to get hostile or be confrontational in your inquiry. Just be civil, you don't have to agree on issues/beliefs/interpretations to present your case/argument in a civil manner.

That being said, let me ask some of our Ismaili posters here a question: is it fair to compare Ismaili Muslims to the so-called 'Black Muslims' here in the U.S. -- i.e. the Nation of Islam and Elijah Muhammad etc? If not, how do they differ?

Thanks.

 

see this is how discussions should be done, more dnd posters need to be like tigermission1 (especially when discussing religious topics)

 

i dont believe in punctuations...

 

LOL! I am attacking people for being "misinformed" about Ismailis?

I got a little angry about the name calling. As I am sure any Christian would if talking about a saint or a Hindu when talking about a diety.

I am sorry I got a little upset when Aga Khan was called "totally nuts" for no apparent reason. Or our jamatkhanas are referred to as "temples" or my religion is labeled a "cult".

Take some reading comprehension classes.

So the temples, mosques, and churches let you in. Now we just have to let you in because we are soooo trying to be like everybody else. I am glad idiots and people who have no respect for other people's religion arent allowed in our jamatkhanas.

Non-Ismailis are allowed in jamatkhanas on very rare occasions and almost never in the prayer hall itself. So big whoop if some were allowed on June 23rd.

When did I say that it tells us in the Quran to pay 12.5% of our income as Dashond? When did I say that it tells in the Quran to pray twice a day? When did I say that it says in the Quran not to allow non-believers from entering our prayer halls. Those are the rules and I don't know why they exist. I am no expert and am not willing to make up something.

Who is claiming that Aga Khan is God or a prophet. No Ismails is going to claim that and Aga Khan himself has never claimed it. I challenge anybody to find me a quote where Aga Khan himself claims to be a God.

It had been tradition to place pictures of Imams in our jamatkhanas over time. The present Aga Khan, about 10-15 years ago demanded that almost all of his pictures be removed from jamatkhanas.

Aga Khan is not a God or Prophet. We believe he posseses the noor of Allah and is here to interpret the Quran for us as it relates to present times. Otherwise we'd be stuck demanding our women to wear some burkhas or worry about growing a long beard or about getting 72 virgins when we get to heaven.

We are definitely the most liberal Muslims (and yes we are Muslims, otherwise it is mighty stupid of me to have gone to Eid today) and I am freakin proud of it. Nobody has ever heard of an Ismaili terrorist.

 

I have no idea what the Nation of Islam is about.

 

Have you ever read a book called "Alamut" by Vladimir Bartol?

 

Honeslty, once again, I should be the last person to ask about religion. I don't know much and just got a little upset because of the name calling. I have not read that book, but have read and seen the entire Mahabharat and Ramayan.

 

Heh! It's cool, man. Just trying to engage you a bit, you know, poke you with a stick

 

Some of my best friends are Ismaili, and I think they are great people. I can see the dedication they have to their religion and i also like Aga Khan's philantropic services.

However, when you say that he has the noor of Allah, that strikes a sour note with me. For those who don't know, noor directly translates to light, or enlightenment. So in a way you are saying Aga Khan, a mortal person has the same enlightened status as Allah. When I sit and think about that, it just doesn't click with me. It is the same reason that the Nation of Islam doesn't click with me me, or Swaminarayan Hindus, or even the likes of Warren Jeffs and his followers.

Even the Prophet Muhammad endlessly tried to disregard any sort holiness or divinity that his people would try to impose on him. So if the Prophet himself said not to hold him to such a high status, then how is it possible to do that to a person who might be from his lineage nearly 1,450 years after Prophet Muhammad passed away.

 

I totally agree with Tiger and others here that this should be discussed civilly and without flinging crap at one another. I don't think my post here was insulting at all. However if it was, I do sincerely apologize. As I said previously, it's your right to worship as you please and it is not my place to criticize or make fun.

That is all

 

Would King Abdullah of Jordan have the 'noor of Allah' as well?

 

Im willing to attend your jamatkhana and sit in the back and just observe. not even say a word. will i be allowed?

is there anyone i can speak with who has the authority? can you atleast give me that info. after all, you are part of this group right.... you contribute the dashond...

which basically means a copy of god.


when one of the khans was asked about the absurdity of people praying to him, he responded by saying hindus pray to cows, am i not better than a cow...

am i mistake or is this correct?

can you please tell me what the ginan haq tu-paktu is about? i heard it is about the divinity of aga khan and the previous imams... i dont speak the language that these ginans are in.

i heard this dua means that ali r.a and muhammad pbuh are one allah.
is this true?

WE arent here discussing the issue of weather or not the folllowers of ismailism are terrorists or not... i havnt heard of too many buddhist terrorists either.

you keep bringing up the point about how offensive being called a cult organization it is... when a cult is nothing more than a small group of people following unconventional ways of another religious group... imo...

 

So yall really think this dude has "the light." [snicker] Funny stuff, whatever floats your boat I guess. Now keep filling his pockets, I think he needs a new house in Malibu. Gig Em Ags!

 

actually color has a lot to do with it. agakhanis consider the "karim aga khan" to be their father, so he can't marry any of their women. so the imams end up marrying european models, and the successive "imams" keep getting whiter and whiter (more light!) i personally see him to be like any other cult leader like david koresh or elijah muhammad.

can anyone direct me to a simple link that outlines for ismailis,
1) how do they pray
2) how do they make hajj
3) what are their beliefs in God

i really dont care for any historical background on the imams, etc, i just want to know the crux of the religious practice.

btw, if he ordered his pics to be removed from jamatkhanas, why is it still up at every agakhani owned business for blessings?

 

http://www.mostmerciful.com/biodata.htm

just go around his website, a former ismaili convert..

 

Your example of terrorists twisting the words of the quran applies directly to the teachings of aga khan.

sure they arent showing hatred, but their milking down the religion so much, that it isnt even an ounce of the original teachings.

see thats the thing, i have more than enough info on the lineage, the division of ismailis and shias, division of shias and sunnis... aga khan and his family. etc... what gets me is the lack of info on prayers, the ginans being in some wierd language that isnt arabic, nor translated into english.
people claiming that giving to the jamatkhana is money better spent than going to hajj...

and from the link of yours, ismaili.net, there is a webforum, and the admin/mods of that forum actually closed a thread and yelled at a person for questioning the prayer method, and the reason why aga khan himself doesnt lead prayers or pray. they said something to the effect, "we cant speak of this stuff in public, it is not for non ismailis to know" and "you give bayat to aga khan, you cant question why he doesnt pray"...

i was shocked at the secretiveness of such a liberal group...