Oh great argument comparing him to the all-time greats. Yao isn't there yet. I'm sure Yao's stats aren't good compared to even average centers right now, but I think it was dumb to compare him instead to Hall of Famer's. Three other things that make you look stupid Regardless, YOUR initial point was about Steve's assists. Now you just turned it into bashing Yao's A/T ratio for no reason? It has no relation to your point about Steve. In similar fashion, since your argument was defending Steve, you should have compared Steve's A/T ratio to other PG's in the league. Or, by your logic, other Hall of Fame point guards. He surely suffers. Maybe that's why you chose to bash Yao instead of defend your point. In your initial argument, you compared Steve's assists (7) to Yao's A/T ratio. How is that a valid argument? Don't you have to compare the same stats? Steve's is something like 1.7, but still..you didn't say that.
I realize I shouldn't have called you out so harshly. I apologize. But I have very little tolerance, because I feel like all you set out to do was sound smart, and sound like you were winning an argument...when in fact you were (attempting to) prove a point that had nothing to do with the argument.
Francis is in some good company with this statistic...Wade, LeBron, Kobe, and Iverson. Not bad...Keep up the good work Stevie.
There's an argument that having other people's kids around -- your brother's or your friend's -- is better than having your own, because you can play catch with them or read a story to them, and then they go home and you don't have to change their diapers or clean up the food they've thrown on the floor. Having Francis in Orlando is kind of like that. You can still watch his highlight-reel plays on ESPN, but the L at the end of the night isn't yours.
a) This proves why that stat isn't the only one to use. b) Lebron is significantly better. Also, Steve is 2nd to last amongst PG's. AI is 3rd to last. I wouldn't say it's good to be in their company w/that...good to have the same weakness? Eh.
Whats interesting is that despite handling the ball as much as lebron, kobe, and wade, TMAC is still not in the top 50 of that list!!!
I don't want to breathe life into a dying thread, but as many people have already pointed out, it's a misleading stat. If you switch to turnovers per game, Francis is only 5th worst, and if you look at the players who average more TOs per game, I don't think you'd be complaining about those guys (Kobe, DWade, AI, Richard Jefferson). The fact is that while it was a weakness in Francis's game, Francis was a great leader who made a tremendous impact on this team during his seasons here. Both Francis and Rockets fans should move on.
PT/AST/RB/TO Come on Jumpman. You know perfectly well that 21/6/6 w/3.7 TO (Francis) is not as good as 29/7.5/4 w/4.0 TO (Iverson). Why would you want a 21ppg player that also turns the ball over at a 3.7 rate but only achives 21ppg? You're not getting enough in return. Why not trade for one that gets 29ppg and 3.7 TO per game? Or better yet....25/5.5/6.3 and 2.7 TO (TMac). So, what I'm saying is that at some point, those turnoves aren't worth what the player gives you overall. Kobe and Iverson both turn the ball over a lot...But at least the can score 29+ ppg! Tmac beats them all, IMO. Lebron is going to be very good too. He's at 3.39 TO per game. But has 7.6 AST and 7.4 RPG and produces 25PPG. He shoots near 50% from the field. I'd take that! And his TOs have come down since last year. I expect that trend to continue.
Lebron's a freak. They showed some stat on NBA TV the other day that since his collision with Deke, his stats have jumped up to 28/8.4/8.1 on 52% shooting. That's just crazy considering he just turned 20.
Yeah, it's refreshing to see great phsically talented players like LeBron, that are ALSO efficient! That's playing at their full potential! LeBron might be the next person that averages a triple double. That will be a common occurrence for him. He's averaging 28/8/8, but he could averge 24/10/10...AND shooting 50%!!!! You never know. He's only 20, like you said. We really don't know how good this guy can become! The sky is the limit.
In order for Yao's assist to to ratio to go up, his teammates actually have to hit a shot after he passes them the ball.... Excluding Yao's, TMac's and Deke's shooting the Rockets are averaging 40.4% FG%. Since Juwan and Motay are averaging 44% I don't even want to compute the average for the rest of the team....
sadly, it has become okay for guys to shoot 43-45% nowadays. Gone are the days of the guards who could shoot 48 and 49% from the outside.. in today's game, Max would be considered an average shooter from the field I think =P
Your statement pretty much stated that Francis' points, rebounds, and steals don't contribute as much as his TOs take away, said nothing about AI. No reason to compare Francis with AI, T-Mac, Kobe and Lebron anyway, of course you'd take any of those guys over Francis.
Why so much discussion Everybody should be happy that now we have a really superstart instead of a pretender wanting to be a franchise player.
