1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Verlander and Cole Linked to “Doctored” Baseballs

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by vator, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. vator

    vator Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Sticky substance used to increase spin rate. Just when you thought it was over. This is going to be big in the news cycle. Evidence of more cheating. Meanwhile, still no news on the Yankees.

     
  2. Robert Snyder

    Robert Snyder Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    17
    Obligatory Yankees did it first post (2014):

    [​IMG]



     
  3. vator

    vator Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    1,651
  4. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    2,432
    What a joke... lots of players involved in this yet most of the articles out put this on the Astros in the headlines and some don't even mention the other players by name.

    Here are the names according to ESPN...

    "he identified Cole, Justin Verlander, Edwin Jackson, Max Scherzer, Felix Hernandez, Corey Kluber, Joba Chamberlain, Adam Wainwright and Tyler Chatwood among the pitchers who previously asked for his specific blend of pine tar and rosin."

    "Harkins also named several current and former Angels -- Percival, Brendan Donnelly, Kevin Jepsen, Cam Bedrosian, Keynan Middleton, Yusmeiro Petit, Luke Bard, Matt Andriese, Dylan Peters, Jose Suarez, Kaleb Cowart and Dylan Bundy -- who used the blend."

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...-attendant-names-pitchers-ball-doctoring-case
     
    JayGoogle and everyday eddie like this.
  5. John Harvey

    John Harvey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    whatever happend to joba
     
  6. jjsmooth

    jjsmooth Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    11
    The real scandal is about to be blown open folks. Get ready.
     
    Htown Stros and Joe Joe like this.
  7. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,646
    Likes Received:
    5,561
    Unlike Astros version of sign stealing, I suspect sticky substances matter a lot more. Though, I expect greater than 50% of pitchers use it so it may average out.
     
  8. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    28,357
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Doctored baseballs? MLb should know something about that.
     
    BigM and ryan_98 like this.
  9. Radricky

    Radricky Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    36
    So let me get this straight. The angels orginazation supplied illegal substances to pitchers across the league for years, supplied drugs that resulted in the death of a player, but the Astros orginazation is still the scum of the league?
     
  10. Castor27

    Castor27 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Messages:
    9,701
    Likes Received:
    894
    Change person to team and the Astros can relate to this.
     
    The Beard likes this.
  11. jakedasnake

    jakedasnake Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,372
    Likes Received:
    1,169
    Most are Angels and this came from an Angels employee (or former Angel employee). The same franchise where a pitcher died of substance abuse that was apparently rampant with the team and others around the team. The Angels should be the headliners in this article with the Astros at the footnote. If you want to demonize a franchise, go after the one that contributed to an actual player's death die due to actions of others in the franchise. Crazy, but Astros will get singled out again but at least the Astros are not the only ones named so the beloved LA franchise will not be dragged through the ringer on this and therefore neither will the Astros. Don't see this becoming a big deal due to so may others being involved. Swept under the rug as they say.
     
    Invisible Fan, Astrofan59 and TWS1986 like this.
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    39,646
    Likes Received:
    57,545
    The outrage of reporters and fans over "cheating" in baseball just shows how incredibly large the gulf is between what those on the outside think goes on and is accepted by players and managers and what ACTUALLY happens.

    Cheating has been rampant in baseball for as long as the game has existed. When I worked for the Astros I saw players openly discuss cheating and anything to get an advantage... everything from medicine to improve concentration, to altering baseballs and bats, to substances on baseballs and even discussions of hormone treatments. This is really a non story to me, but whatever. I still remember Astros players being envious that the Cards pitchers were better at cheating, including Jeff Supan and others.
     
  13. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,646
    Likes Received:
    5,561
    Of the cheating going on, I suspect service time manipulation and doctoring the ball are the biggest impacts on the game today. I hate having a rule and not enforcing it during games consistently. Either remove rule or enforce it.

    I think the number of Ks dropping would be statistically noticeable if MLB kept pitchers from doctoring the ball.
     
    Nook likes this.
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    39,646
    Likes Received:
    57,545
    There is no question that doctoring the ball at this point is the largest issue with spin rates and the such.

    Service time manipulation is a big problem but I will tell you that from the front office perspective there was and likely still is a lot of chicanery with international players and signings. Some teams like the Braves and Padres and Dodgers are famous for under the door payments and payments to runners/agents/scouts to get the best of the international players. The Braves were recently punished but if you believe what is said around the game, the Padres and Dodgers were HEAVILY involved in just the last few years.
     
    SuraGotMadHops likes this.
  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,646
    Likes Received:
    5,561
    While I suspect the international player signings have more shadiness on them, the impact of each service time manipulation is huge. The Dodgers getting a year of Bellinger in 2017 without having to use up a year of service time is basically a $40M dollar cheat or the payroll for Cleveland this season.
     
    Nook, Screaming Fist and The Beard like this.
  16. lnchan

    lnchan LeonardTX26
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,494
    Likes Received:
    5,739
    How could the Angels be sooo bad in pitching while having these 'resources' in-house?

    ...and do the Nationals now vacate the title due to Max Scherzer?
     
  17. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    20,621
    Likes Received:
    5,034
    Everyone is cheating the astros just had mike fiers tell on them. They should have just paid him off.
     
    Duke Fan likes this.
  18. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    27,414
    Likes Received:
    3,192
    The Braves GM ended up with a lifetime ban.
     
    Nook likes this.
  19. Screaming Fist

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    431
    It’s surprising usage isn’t universal outside of sinker/change pitchers. You’re literally losing out on money by not doing it.
     
    No Worries likes this.
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,646
    Likes Received:
    5,561
    Surveys of players/coaches a while back suggested it was 70 or 75%. My skepticism or surveys suggests it is either much higher or much lower than 70%.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now