No argument here about them going "poof" in the playoffs but that's what you get when you depend on streaky shooters which is what you have in Alston, Head & Battier. And this was something that did not only happen to the Rox (see Jason Terry & the Mavericks). Now this is where it gets interesting. If team depth is not a big need, then why is JVG being verbally strung up for "failing" to develop the guys sitting at the end of the bench because according to those who want his ass gone, this was the deciding factor that killed them in the playoffs. As for getting that one extra guy who could create offense, they had that guy in Mike James but CD traded him. Not JVG's fault. As for the rest of the team, they were hand picked to be spot-up shooters and not scorers who could create their own offense which is exactly what you have on the team. Again, this was by design. It didn't work and now folks want the head coach to take the blame. You can blame JVG for Bonzi Wells if you'd like but I am of the opinion that Bonzi never wanted to play here especially for the $2.5 million and that he, not JVG, is responsible for what happened here. Good point but again, given all of the rules changes and such, the league may have evolved in such a way that this approach is no longer valid. It will be most instructive to see what the next coach is able to get done with these players. My gut feeling is that things won't change all that much and that come next year, we'll all be back here rehashing yet another playoff misfire.
CD traded Mike James for Rafer Alston because JVG wanted a more pure PG to fill in for an injured Sura. JVG made his bed, and now he has to lie in it. DD
And CD needed to get a point guard because he never replaced Stevie Franchise. Let's take a look at the rosters: In 2003-2004 the Rockets point guards were: Steve Francis, Moochie Norris & Mark Jackson. The other guards on the roster? Eric Piatkowski, Rod Strickland, Cuttino Mobley, Jim Jackson, Mike Wilks and the injured Adrian Griffin. In 2004-2005, the Rockets point guards consisted of: Tyronne Lue, Charlie Ward, Andre Barrett, Brandin Knight & Rod Strickland. The rest of the guard corps consisted of Tracey McGrady, Mike James, David Wesley, Bob Sura, Jon Barry & Reese Gaines. In 2005-2006, the Rockets point guards were: Rafer Alston, John Lucas & Rick Brunson. The rest of the guard corps: Tmac, David Wesley, Derek Anderson, Luther Head, Richie Frahm & Jon Barry. In 2006-2007, the Rockets point guards were Rafer Alston & John Lucas. Add in Tmac, Kirk Snyder, Bonzi Wells, Vassilis Spanoulis and Bobby Sura and that rounds out the rest of the roster. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that CD may have made the bed but it was JVG who had to lie in it.
How many of those guys did JVG have a hand in bringing in? CD didn't make a move without discussing it with JVG....... They both are copable, but honestly once we traded for McGrady and had Yao both on Max contracts it is going to be hit and miss until you get the chemistry right. You have to develop within in situations like this. DD
O.K., I just don't like his personality, how's that? I think management is more responsible than JVG, but his rigidity and stubborness are real. His negativity is a killer. It is time for change. I think he has done a poor job of developing and utilizing Yao. I think he is bad for TMac's mental health, despite his comments to the contrary. His development and utilization of young players was nonexistent, which could have helped during playoff time. His penchant for ole burned out Knicks still turns me off. I think if Les had not shut that down they would still be coming. Time for some fresh ideas.
He may have discussed it with JVG but in the end, those moves belong to him because he was the GM and the responsibility for these moves was his. OK weedhopper, I'll grant you that. We should both be able to agree on the fact that it's been mostly MISS. An excellent theory. However, it would go a long way toward helping your franchise if you had a GM who actually knew how to draft players especially when he's drafting in the NBA lottery. You also have to reconcile this philosophy with the official "Win Now" position adopted by the Rockets organization because these two objectives would appear on the surface to be contradictory.
I can relate. He's not exactly Mr. Sunshine... JVG's rigidity and stubborness were well known to the Rockets at the time of his hire and I don't recall many folks who were all that bothered about it at the time. In fact, I recall putting forth the question of whether his approach and systems that were rooted in the Eastern Conference style of play could succeed in the Western Conference but again, not too many folks around here were all that concerned. What a difference three years makes...As for Yao's development, JVG has made him a tougher player especially mentally. Tmac is a great talent but he lacks the intestinal fortitude to be a championship caliber player. He's somewhat of a poser. Agree with you that it is time for fresh ideas but given the circumstances, more than fresh ideas will be needed to turn things around.
For the management, "WIN NOW" means playoff success that eventually leads to championship. For JVG, "WIN NOW" means winning regular season games at all cost. Two different conceptions. The management should be disappointed.
Again this is on both of them, JVG tells CD what kind of player he needs and they talk and CD says "What about this guy" and JVG agrees or not. Tmac - Hit Yao - Hit Battier Hit Snyder - Hit (sort of) And some maybes and some misses.... I think you can win now and play young players....Robert Horry was in his 2nd year, Sam Cassel was in his first year when the Rockets won the championship...... I think you need to get some veterans and some rookies, and they all need to compliment each other as well as offer something different when they are in there....ala Kenny Smith's long range game and Sam Cassels mid range game.....you could give the opponent different looks. Right now, our team is too easy to defend because of a lack of variety in JVG's system and in the players he plays.... DD
I think once a player gets into the NBA, their "development" really has to do with the player himself rather than the head coach. For example...A lot of people is now singing the praises about how Sloan make a useful player out of Paul Millsap and JVG couldn't "develop" Kirk Snyder. Well.... let's remember who coach Kirk Snyder as a rookie... also lets remember where the 12th Pick Ronnie Brewer was during the series. Players are responsible for their own development with in-season and off-seasonwork, coaches simply play who proves himself ready by his preparation. Giving players charity minutes have very little impact on "development." Good young player get minutes when they earn minutes. There are plenty of guys who got to play because they were on losing teams but never fulfill expectation despite charity "development" minutes. Guys like Millsap and Chuck Hayes, and Luther were ready to contribute, Snyder, Brewer, Spanoulis were not.
I think it is situational and based upon the coaches whom they play for....they might have made more of an impact playing for another coach that knows mistakes are going to be made but in the end the team will be better....ala Greg Popovich. DD
But wasnt Snyder contributing until he got hurt? Then when he was OK'd to play all JVG would say its unfortunate that he got hurt so he loses his spot in the rotation? Deke was also ready to contribute against Utah...I wonder how JVG would rationalize that decision. Like someone else said in another thread JVG is a good coach, but he would be a great caoch if he wasnt so shortsided
Still it's the results (or lack thereof) that matter and they haven't been all that great. You consider Snyder a hit? Battier falls in the Hit (sort of) category. Perhaps but the guys you name are vastly better players than those on the Rockets now and don't forget they had the benefit of coming to veteran Rockets teams that were superior to the ones CD has been cobbling together for over 10 years now. Agree but that takes foresight, planning and the ability to execute that plan. Those are attributes that cannot be attributed to the Rockets' organization of the past decade. The team is easy to defend because it adopted a fundamentally imbalanced offensive philosophy where the primary offense production rests in the hands of 2 players. Opposing coaches concentrate their teams' defensive efforts on minimizing or stopping those two players because they understand that by doing so, that gives their team the best chance of victory. Throw in the casts of average to below average offensive "role players" around the two primary players and it should come as no surprise that this team is weak offensively. The point I'm making here is that it's the very design of this team that invites this sort of defense, not the head coach's system. This has been further exacerbated by the rules changes enacted in recent years that have served to diminish the importance of low post play. This makes the Rockets even more vulnerable because one of those 2 primary players, is Yao Ming.
That is for sure. The supporting cast is one of the weakest in the league. I have been saying that for a long time, but few believe it. Without a doubt, Rafer, Hayes, and even Battier do not start for any of the eight playoff teams in the West except the Rockets.
Much, much, much, much lower to a point that any team giving him a head coaching job should, if they have their heads on straight, be aware of his history by now. Although he might be had on the cheap considering the amount of money he has made in recent years. Anyway he would be damaging to any team who brings him on board.IMHO
Battier is about as good as Bruce Bowen of the Spurs. 4-8 would not play for probably any of the remaining teams. A weak supporting cast. Of course Bown is like number 5 on the Spurs and Battier fails as a number 3.
I have not read through the thread, so sorry if this has already been posted, but the longer nothing is said from Rocket management and/or the less likely JVG is coming back. I think I have come full circle on where I stand with JVG. At first I felt like I wanted him back because he brought so much to this team. You always knew with a JVG team you had a chance to win that game that night, because he had this team prepared and they seemed to bring their defensive intensity every night. How many times this year can you say the Rockets were not prepared to play? You can argue they didnt come out with energy or intensity, but you can never argue that they were not prepared. Also, less important, but important in its own right, to a man, all of his players love him (exception, Wells and Spanoulis). Now, after some thought and reflection and a lot of brooding after Game 7, I think it is time the Rockets went in another direction. These are my reasons: 1) No adjustments were ever made. I know I am not a great basektball mind, but did you ever notice any adjustments being made that turned out successful? 2) I dont like the way JVG uses the doghouse. Once you get in it, your season is completely over. Swift, Spanoulis, Synder, Wells, etc) I will say I can not hold JVG completely responsible for Swift, as that guy turned out to be the same in Memphis this year as well. 3) He never developed the bench. I know we dont have all stars sitting there, but the problem is two fold. First, ever wonder why our starters miss shots down the stretch and tend to fall apart late in games?- they are tired! Secondly, the bench becomes completely useless in the playoffs or in the stretch run. I know that this as been written here, but Rafer played like 44 or so minutes a game. That cant be good for anyone. 4) It is time for the Rockets to hear a new voice. Sometimes in this league players get very used to a coach and learn to tune them out. I dont know if this is the case, but I would venture a guess so. Lets also face it, JVG took three Rocket teams to the playoffs and never got past the first round. The Rockets also blew four big HOME playoff games when they had the lead late in the fourth quarter under his watch: a) Rockets v Lakers Game 2 2004 Playoffs b) Rockets v Mavs Game 3 2005 Playoffs c) Rockets v Mavs Game 4 2005 Playoffs d) Rockets v Jazz Game 7 2007 Playoffs With those losses and the Game 7 loss looming the largest, I think it is time for a new voice.
Snyder was getting minutes early, but in the end, like other guys who got some minutes at one time or another (Spanoulis, Bonzi, Novak), the team just ran better with the regulars than without him. As for Deke... I honestly think the Rockets kinda struggled with him in there... he's a good defender from a techniquies point of view, but he wasn't dealing any better with Boozer's quickers than Yao was, and offensively, he allows Utah to help on McGrady even more. The team, with this matchup, just played better with Juwan and Chuck when Yao was out. Yeah, there are things JVG could have tried more or less, there always is something for a coach to try (or some decisions a player could have made better), but playing Juwan instead of Deke was a fairly reasonable one. Not that I blame Deke for thinkiing that way, either... probbaly 99% of NBA players think they can help the team with more minutes.
