Van Gundy has to prove....

Outside of the Olajuwon years, who exactly did Rudy develop?

Pippen came in and sucked (w/ Olajuwon). Shandon Anderson came in and sucked. Cato came in and sucked. Mo Taylor came in and sucked. etc.

What coach out there successfully develops roleplayers? The only players that go anywhere and consistently look better is Phoenix, and that's because of their system.

 

Along with this type of perception....

JVG is against any player being a "Knucklehead" (see definition below)

Thats because of Steve Nash

 

Sorry to interrupt the rant with facts, but... about that Luther Head guy:


http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luther_head/season_splits.html

SPLIT G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
In November 13 6 27.2 .391 .482 .739 .3 2.8 3.2 2.4 1.0 .00 10.0
In December 13 3 30.0 .355 .309 .500 .5 3.4 3.8 2.4 1.1 .15 8.0
In January 16 2 29.0 .373 .294 .750 .4 2.7 3.1 2.6 1.1 .13 8.4
In February 13 0 20.0 .412 .343 .625 .2 2.1 2.3 2.2 .8 .00 5.6
In March 15 9 32.6 .443 .375 .737 .5 3.3 3.8 3.0 1.5 .20 10.3
In April 10 7 35.3 .461 .395 .700 .6 3.2 3.8 3.9 1.3 .20 11.1


_____________________________________________________

 

Mobley, Francis, and KT

 

They may have put up good numbers, but it wasn't particularly conducive to winning. From what remember of people's comments during JVG's first year here, they played a whole lot smarter under JVG. They put up worse numbers because we slowed down the pace, but also played better defense (Mobley, at least).

 

First off, I don't think a head coach has all that much to do with developing players other than giving them playing time. It is more up to the player to improve himself IMO.

Actually, assistant coaches probably have more to do with it than the head coach when it comes to physical development (skills).

If you did attribute it to the head coach though...I'm pretty certain that Yao has improved drastically under JVG. All this talk about Derek Anderson and Stromile and we forget the most important guy on the team that could be an MVP candidate next year.

Anderson is a joke and should be retired. I think we'll soon find that Stromile isn't going to live up to all that potential...the only way he'll flourish in this league is with someone like Pheonix. Head hit a rookie wall last year, but did improve somewhat. This thread is way off base...

 

come on look at Yao, granted he already had the potential but didn't blow up until later, under van gundy

 

you mean that team that had 3 all stars on it?

Rocket River

 

It's a no win situation from the fans. If players actually develop and become All Stars, its because of the players themselves. If they just plain suck, then its the coach's fault.

 

Well, if Van Gundyd deserves criticism, it is more his predilection for vets than his inability to develop players. What I think can be levied against Van Gundy is that he desperately needs disciplined veterans who understand his defensive system and do not make stupid decisions speeding up the tempo or in half-court sets. I CAN agree that he need to be more flexible and adapt to certain players at certain times because in basketball you are just so limited with the team you can put on the floor together.

Most have already debunked the original post's examples, so no need to go there. But I do think by redeeming Barry and Sura from the scrap heap, making Bowen a decent contributor at times, and even helping Alston look like a better half-court one than he ever has, Van Gundy has shown that those disciplined vets can thrive under his system and become better players. But the problem is you have to get just the right combination of those vets, which we probably did not have in 04-05 without more length on the wing and shooting/athleticism from the four. I am willing to bet if you plugged in Udonis Haslem with a healthy Howard at the four and then replaced Wesley with Eddie Jones, then we might be talking about Van Gundy's ability to put a bunch of vets on the floor without top-flkight athleticism and still get the job done like we did about Riley this past season. But I could be wrong.

 

Cassell and Horry
Chucky Brown was in the league years longer than anyone could have predicted
Elie . . . .

Even if you don't say development
Rudy put players in a position to succeed and gain confidence

JVG puts pegs into the wholes. . if they don't fit . .he gets rid of them
JVG can only coach JVG-type players - shows a weakness in his coaching ability


Rudy could coach anyone . .. he changes the system to fit them
people say JVG maybe a better X-O guy . . . I totally disagree
He has a playbook . .. he has plays. . . but they never change
and X-O guy adapts . . .

having plays is not enough

Rocket River

 

Marcus Camby was el-Busto in Toronto. All the height and hops and he could not rebound worth a damn. Got traded for a 34 year old Charles Oakley, and Van Gundy hated that trade. Flat out HATED it and feuded with his GM. He still helped Camby become a real player in this league.

Was Camby a Van Gundy type player? Certain not when he first got to NY.

Kurt Thomas missed almost two whole years of action before getting to NY and graduatlly earning more PT and developing into a productive guy.

Charlie Ward, too, became a very good player under Van Gundy.

He got all these guys early in their career and they gradually learned and got more playing time and production. You think of them as vets, but they weren't vets when Van Gundy first had them, somebody helped them become vets.

But then again, interjecting facts into a rant thread is inappropriate.


As for "Rudy can coach anybody, he doesn't need to get rid of anyone".... yeah, but what did he coach them into his last few seasons? The lottery. What kind of confidence did Rudy help Mo Taylor gain? Kelvin Cato? Is not getting rid of Mo Taylor a good thing?

Don't make Rudy T into some sort of magical being who can turn chicken **** into chicken soup.

 

I disagree with JVG helping Camby's game. He was outstanding in college and it was only a matter of time before his game exploded in the NBA. JVG molding the best shot-blocker in the NBA? come on

 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marcus_camby/

Camby was a good player in college, of course and he could always block shots, but he was not that good an NBA player in Toronto.

Ineffiecient (way too many TO), a Juwan Howard-like rebounding rate, and not much smarts on the court. It took a while for him to develop into what he is today.

 

I wish I had a dollar for every yard of film Rudy must have looked at. (I could buy that incredible art-deco place in Marrakesh I saw a little while ago on some design channel my wife is watching... amazing!) We all know he was an assistant for many years before he got the big break he wasn't looking for. The man knew a lot about talent before he became the head coach.

Van Gundy had a lost year, last year. I think a lot of the talk about JVG not developing players is based partly on seeing how little he played Swift, Hayes, etc. towards the last part of last season, when Yao was playing like a man possessed, but the Rocks hadn't a chance in hell of making the playoffs. It's something that's never really been explained to a lot of people's satisfaction.

I liked the way Van Gundy adjusted to his talent after we got McGrady. It took a bit, but we started playing very well, and got into the playoffs for the first time in too long. He deserves credit for that. We'll see this season how JVG handles the team he ends up with. Clearly, it's going to have some youth blended in with some solid role players (uh, I'm assuming we'll have more than what we have so far), a superstar, and the best center in the NBA. Jeff will be on the bubble. If the bubble doesn't pop, due to the "I" word, I don't see how we can fail to have a strong season. How far we go will determine how long Van Gundy stays as coach of the Rockets. The is make or break time for Jeff.


(I know... I just said a bunch of obvious stuff. So sue me!)

 

I agree with your post, AB, but you're talking apples and oranges. Rudy was more fit for younger players and gave them more freedom, hence why the Rockets' defense was inconsistent for some of the latter years during his tenure. Van Gundy is more suited for a veteran approach and does better with organization and defining roles. So of course he's not going to play rookies when there are 12 other more guys with more experience. He's a more conserved and restricted coach while Rudy was willing to sacrifice wins in return for player progression.

It's just a matter of which style of organization you prefer.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to get all sarcastic and bitter... I'm just somewhat frustrated that many Rockets fans are getting too negative from that one injury plagued season to remember that the team had a couple of pretty good runs in 03/04 and 04/05, better than the four seasons prior to that, at least. Van Gudy got a lot of unwarranted criticism among fans.

Some coaches get stereotyped as only working with older vets-- Van Gudy, Larry Brown are both in this category. However, people forget about the young players they did help develop. With Van Gundy, people forget Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas, and Marcus Camby were not born 30 years old with 8 years of NBA experience. Van Gundy got these guys when they were fairly green. He didn't give them big minutes at first, but gradually increased their time as they grew and the vets aged.

With the Rockets, they really didn't have that many young talent to speak of besides Yao and Yao certainly has developed. He worked with vets because that's pretty much all they had on the roster and all they could afford to get after the post-McGrady trade scramble. I mean.. Rockets had who? Boki? Did he amount to anything with other teams? EGriff? Year later, he's still fighting his personal issues. Luther got his time out of neccesity and seems to have become more efficient.'' Chuck Hayes got plenty of burn for an undrafted rookie (which other undrafted rookie really got that much more time than Chuck did?)

 

that's all i want to say