Valuation of Rudy Gay from Grizzlie's Fans Point of View

MY PROBLEM IS THAT I WAS EXPECTING


STAY WITH RUDY GAY AND TRADE T-MAC WHEN HE HAD SOME VALUE BUT

 

Thing is, teams always want young talent. The Bobcats got Jason Richardson for the 8th pick. The Mavs got Devin harris for Jamison. I could go on and on about the probability of possibility. Bottomline is the #8th pick and a player is worth more than shane battier. Hell, it couldve been traded for Josh Childress at the time at worse. A young player that can get better and fit a lot of what they were trying to do. I just don't know how win now equaled not developing a lotto pick. Look at La, they wouldn't give up Bynum for J Kidd. A few yrs later, they were right and now their window to win a ring is as big as the grand canyon. If nothing else, Rudy or Brewer couldve been trade bait or they couldve kept this imaginary window open.

DD, I'm not taking anything away from wafer because I really like him, but Rudy would be doing the same thing if not more if he got to play off the canyons created by Yao and tracy. Not to mention he fills the lane which is a bonus playing with Rafer. There would also be easy alley oops availible with him on the court. People will frown at that, but that's a easy 2 when he back doors. Its doesn't have to be a catch at the waist, make a move and go up. The all in one moton alley is a basic basketball play that the rox can really run because of the lack of athleticism .

 

1. Bynum was kept because the lakers lacked a legit center. The rockets already had, not only a legit swingman, but an all-star in tmac. Its not even close to the same thing.

2. #8 pick and a player was worth more than battier to OTHER teams. I'm not sure why fans don't get this. If you're trying to make a PB and jelly sandwich, does it make sense to have 2 slices of bread, no PB, and 2 jars of jelly?? Of course not. Would you trade one whole jar of jelly for just 2 tablespoons of PB?? Of course you would, at least if you really wanted to have a complete sandwhich.

Same thing applied with Houston, why overload on swingmen, when what you needed was that defensive perimeter guy, the glue guy, the intangibles guy, the high IQ guy, etc. Their objective wasn't to just win, make highlight reels or be entertaining, it was to WIN A RING. You need a complete team to do that and there must be variety within the team.

3. There's no way Gay develops like he did in Memphis had he been here. Over there he gets a green light, #1 or #2 scorer, plenty of minutes, last second shots, most of the plays, etc. Here he doesn't get any of that because Yao and tracy get most of that. Gay wouldn't have to work much for his shot, which means easy dunks, open shots. I know that make it sound like he would have turned out great, but those would be opportunities Yao and tmac created, not him. This means he wouldn't have a need to develop or expand his game. In other words, he'd be raw even after 3 yrs.

 

i really need to watch more games. but from the games ive seen (props to Rockets2k), most recent is the nuggets game where he was amazing, all ive seen wafer do is catch the ball (while standing still) and shoot it or attack the basket. no playing off the ball. no running off screens, setting picks or cutting to the basket.

actually in the nuggest game, whenever he got the ball, he straight up shot it, didnt bother passing it off. good thing he's a great shooter. im sure, with those same opportunities, gay would be good as well.

 

Gay has to dominate the ball because after they traded Gasol for nothing, and before they got Mayo, who else did they have?

 

All this stuff about Rudy Gay not developing. While I do environment, team philosophy & timing can impact performance

Ronnie Brewer developed just fine playing with FOUR All Stars
Andrew Bynum developed just fine splitting minutes with Kwame Brown & Chris Mihm
Devin Harris developed alright while still in Dallas
Rodney Stuckey isnt that bad in Detroit

How is it the Rockets are holding back talent from developing?

 

Again...this is a weak, tired, no good argument....

You have to trust your teamates.....this whole.....do it yourself stuff is tiring, and frankly smacks of not understanding how important team ball is to winning.

DD

 

So what was wrong with Chris Mihm whome they already had? By your rational, you can have too many good players.

In 92 after missing the playoffs, the rox drafted a college center to play pf because he was long, versitile, and multiple. He struggled a bit and was even traded, but the trade was revoked. So here are the rox with basically a hole at the 3 spot and they draft a college center! The rockets in 2006 shouldn't have ever been in win now mode to the point the bypass talent. The spurs, who had already won 2 rings, played a 19 yr old pg and let him develop with the vets keeping a close eye. Are you telling me the Rockets in 06 were closer to win now mode than the spurs who had just won a title 3 yrs earlier and had the best big in the game?

La didn't give up Bynum even though they had a fire breathing Kobe breathing down their throats. He was puzzled and furious they would keep a uknown over a proven. Hell, they traded Divac who was a known for a ultra talent unknown in kobe in the 1st place. We can go on,and on, and on and it really isn't about Gay. Its about getting as much value for that pick as possible. There are 2 guys and that's all that counts that they got good value. Morey and JVG thought they got value. There isn't another gm that wouldve pulled that trigger and felt good about it. Even if Gay struggles with rookie mistakes which all or most struggle with, he would still get a lot of easy points playing with yao and tracy. To me and DD will tell you, I wanted or expected Brewer because no way I thought Gay would be there at 8. When he was there, I thought at that point, just take the highest raed guy on the board and go from there. I mean Donte Green got the Rockets Artest. Why couldn't Gay fetch more than Battier?

 

-The jazz have sloan as coach, who's above everyone else and brewer does things away from the ball.

-Bynum developed because they gave him an opportunity, which was available because Kwame was inconsistent and Mihm had injuries.

-Harris blew up when he got out of dallas. Dallas had no depth while he was there.

-stuckey was stuck behind billups, he didn't really emerge consistently until he got the minutes and started some games.

Gay would have been that guy who could be become a very good player "if only he wasn't behind tmac", that's what you were hear all the time.

 

i can't believe people keep mentioning Mihm, when someone says "mihm", the words "injuries" should immediately pop into your head, Mihm has had injuries every year since the year BEFORE bynum was drafted...and my rationale was not that you can have too many good players, but too many good players that play the same ROLE/POSITION. You're talking about the lakers drafting bynum whenthey already had Kobe, that makes no sense since they aren't even close to being the same player or playing the same role...

You pretty much answered yourself when talking about horry. he was VERSATILE, MULTIPLE, as in could play the 3, 4 and 5 spots. The rockets needed a 3 man, so what's wrong with getting a guy who can play the 4 and 5 also? You also have to consider the talent in the draft. Who were the smll forwards available? Malik Sealy, Tracey murray, byron houston, dave johnson, steve rogers, brett roberts...you're probably thinking "who?", exactly my point. If you need a certain position, but everyone at that position sucks, then you have to draft on talent alone. The rockets did that with Gay, drafted on talent alone. However, battier was an ESTABLISHED player, which is why they traded for him.

why shouldn't the 2006 rockets been in a win now mode??? they had the pieces. Pretty much every team is trying to be in win-now mode, i mean that is the point, unless you have no pieces or very few, then you should be trying to do whatver you can to be in that mode.

I think you're mainly just throwing out facts out there without really thinking about the reasoning behind them. Donte Greene got the rockets Artest because Artest HAD to be traded. the kings were determined to trade him and get back young guys or expiring contracts for him (they got both in Greene and Jackson). Similar to the Lakers getting Gasol for Kwame. That's a unique situation, its not how it normally happens. Memphis LOVED Battier, and they turned down several trades that involved shane during his time there. They finally pulled the trigger, not because they didn't believe in him or didn't think he was worth keeping,but because they needed someone like Gay, someone else to build around besides Gasol.

 

Gonna try to address multiple posts without quoting all of them:

As someone else already noted, Wafer doesn't really play off the ball. He's not running around ala Richard Hamilton. He camps in a spot and fires away when the ball is swung in his direction. If he has an open lane he can get to the rack unlike anyone else we have (i.e. Battier, Barry, Head, etc). Yes, I think Gay could also excel doing this.

To answer specifically, yes I think Gay would be fine playing off the ball. Yes, I think he would be fine not being the #1 option. His knock coming out of college (a stacked team at that) was that he deferred too much and wasn't aggressive enough. Folks wondered if he could be selfish enough to be the #1 guy. Fitting in was never an issue with Gay. And he didn't need to dominate the rock to be effective there either. Gay has the skillsets and size/athleticism to contribute doing other things (ala Ronnie Brewer).

No one knows how he would have done here, but he clearly has the skillsets to have excelled under JVG or Rudy. He has the bodytype to be an elite wing defender. I think he could have excelled under JVG. He clearly can score the ball...I think he would excel under Rick too. Look at all the improvements Brooks and Landry have made. This of course, is all assuming he had the right mindset and worked hard. But again, there was none of this selfish stuff coming out of college...until he went to a suck franchise that told him fro day 1 "you are the man".

 

What gets lost in this discussion is that the Rockets were planning that offseason looking to build a championship team that year. They just came off a putrid 30 something win season. They didn't want to take a chance on a lottery pick who'd take time to develop over a number of years. They needed to get back to winning right away. That's what the fans expected, and that's what the organization expected.

With Battier, they pretty much knew exactly what they'd get, and they knew he'd fit in much better in their coach's system (Van Gundy). It's easy to forget that there were A LOT of question marks about Rudy Gay at the time. He was originally projected to be a top 5 pick, but his stock fell quite a bit before the draft. There were a lot of teams unsure about him.

You also have to consider that it wasn't the only offseason move they made. They also acquired Kirk Snyder and Bonzi Wells -- two athletic wings who could handle and score attacking the basket. Was it Battier's fault that those guys never panned out? Was it his fault that both McGrady and Yao continue to miss significant time with injuries?

I freely admit that Rudy Gay turned out to be a better scorer than probably the Rockets expected, and in a results oriented business we can't be happy about two first round exits. In retrospect, maybe we should have just stuck with Rudy Gay, taken our lumps that first year, and hoped for better things to come. I wouldn't have objected then if that's the decision we made. But, under the circumstances, I think the Rockets' choice made sense as well. That's the nature of these decisions. Sometimes good arguments can be made for and against, regardless of what the results end up being.

 

But can't you also say management made a mistake in that regard, because we were no where near being a championship team. I could see if we were close enough where the Battier trade would put us over the top....but we were no where near the top.

 

why weren't they? 2 yrs prior to that they should have beat the mavs and advanced to the second round. The next year they were struck by injuries and their horrible record was a fluke. When healthy, this was really a second round to conf finals team. The next step? The finals. What did they think was missing to literally get to the 2nr round and conf finals? Health. And to get to the finals? Battier.

 

Let me add that on paper they were that team. Of course in reality they weren't even a second round team, but a lot of that had to do with bad luck (injuries). This wasn't a team that lacked the talent, so with health, along with Battier, it was reasonable to believe they could go from a first round team to a legit championship contender. Unfortunately, injuries and mental breakdowns continued, and none of them involved Battier, until now.