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"Valley Oop" needs a new rule

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by H.D., Jun 27, 2021.

  1. H.D.

    H.D. Member

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    It's absurd that the inbound pass is not a shot but points can count so long as even a finger touches the ball before it is thru the cylinder. The rule needs to be at least modified this off-season.
     
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  2. Haymitch

    Haymitch Contributing Member

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    It's not absurd. An inbounds pass is not a shot.
     
  3. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    If the ball is in play and some one throws an alley oop pass that a teammate catches over the cylinder and dunks — is that goaltending? I thought it was. If so, what’s the difference?
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    The difference is that it's not a live ball - if it goes through the cylinder on its own, you don't get any points. The defensive player has the same rights as the offensive player here - the defender can go grab it above the rim or on the way down to the rim/etc. The offensive player can tip it in over the rim; the defensive player can swat it away over the rim. It just seems like a creative and difficult to execute play to me. The fact that it's been in the rulebook forever and this is the first time anyone has pulled it off (that we know about) speaks to both the creativity and the difficulty to do it.
     
  5. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    Yeah, you basically need someone to stand flat-footed, out-of-bounds, (so either behind the backboard or beyond the 3-point-line), and make a two-handed overhead shot. It's just not going to happen very often. And as you say, defenses need to understand they can leap up and "goal tend" any inbounds pass and play accordingly.

    Don't favor a rule change here -- it's kind of a cool little wrinkle.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    Not only that, you need to get your offensive player to touch it. If the offensive player gets blocked out and shot just goes in, you lose possession I assume (since it's not a live ball, maybe it can go through the basket and someone can grab it on the other side and it becomes in play? no idea on that). So it's a high-risk play - in the Suns' case, they had 0.9 seconds so they had plenty of time for a normal catch and shoot play where they are at least 80% likely to get a shot off.
     
    #6 Major, Jun 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  7. sealclubber1016

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    Why would anybody want the rule changed, it's a completely free ball for all parties.

    Just swat it away, or box out and if you can't then play better defense.
     
  8. H.D.

    H.D. Member

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    Did anyone read my full post? I'm emphasizing it doesn't appear to matter when a finger of the offensive player touches the ball- it can be halfway past the rim. I think the rule should be modified so if part of the ball is below the rim it can't be tipped in.
     
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  9. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    Rule is fine the way it is. Live ball for both teams. It's also a very rare occurrence. It's often refered to as the Jay Triano play as his team was the only other team to do this in the past decade.
     
  10. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    No, it's fine, it's a pass that was tipped above the rim. The rule is good, the play was amazing.
     
  11. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    That didn't happen? Ayton caught the ball clearly above the rim

    Are we sure that if it was in the cylinder that it wouldn't be called as a violation?




    It becomes a shot by Ayton the second the ball touches his finger tip, and Zubac had basket interference too
     
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  12. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    I see. So the critical part isn’t that it wasn’t initially a shot, but that the ball wasn’t live until Ayton touched it. Interesting.
     
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  13. H.D.

    H.D. Member

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    thanks, Nick- i thought it was slightly below the rim when flushed.
     
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  14. tochiee22

    tochiee22 Contributing Member

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    Why not? If it’s below the rim it’s still a pass..
     
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Someone should make a sequel to Valley Girl called 'Valley Oops'.
     
  16. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    I don't really get the wording. If part of the ball is below the rim, literally none of the ball is over the rim. So your example would just be someone catching a ball and dunking it...so like, your run-of-the-mill Oop.

    If the ball was below the rim when Ayton caught it, it'd make the dunk even more impressive.
     
  17. Major

    Major Member

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    I think one interesting question is what if the ball goes through the rim on it's own - and the offensive player touches it half way through the rim? Or after it's already fullybelow? Does it count? Is it a dead ball? Is it a live ball that hasn't scored?
     
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  18. H.D.

    H.D. Member

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    This is what I was referring to, your wording: "half-way thru"
     
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  19. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    the 2020 rox would've lost that 100 times out of 100 cus their tallest player was 5'9"
     
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  20. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Good explanation, thx. Upon reading the wording used in rule book, just want to add that the ball was live. I think you meant “live” as in when the clock starts.

    The critical wording used multiple places in the rules when discussing field goal attempts is the ball is “from the playing area”. Anything from playing area can be a score and anything from playing area can be goaltending (when within cylnder).

    so i guess the refs would use “from playing area” and not talk about live or dead ball.

    Live is when play resumes …[when ball] is at the disposal of the offensive player for a throw-in”. And “Alive” when leaves hand. I think the distinction there regards counting 5 seconds, and when defensive fouls are technicals during inbounds and when they arent, not to mention violations for inbounder shuffling feet or stepping over the line.
     
    #20 heypartner, Jun 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
    Richie_Rich and Major like this.

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