Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the common underlying circumstance in both cases: A top star player on JVG's team was excited about the raw talent manifested by a new teammate, and showed genuine desire to help him become a solid role player on this team, only to see the hope dashed under JVG's coaching. So there you go: JVG sucks!
Well, yeah, I was talking about when they were drafted, thus the "was". I was not making an argument, just covering their history (notice I did not say "you are wrong"). Span was considered much more of a project and, sure enough, took a while to enter the league after being drafted. Now, Span did play two more years in Europe but he only played one year at a "high" level. Boki played two for a powerhouse. Unlike Boki, though, Span immediately improved his game when going to the higher level (most likely because he was slower rising through the ranks and because of his personality). So, again, I am not trying to prove a point if we are talking Boki v Span, I was just providing information. Span v Cassell or Span v Parker (as rookies) is where I have major issues. PS - how can you say he does not have 20 ppg in him in the same thread where you were saying he is Tony Parker II?
I am saying that he has a game similar to Parkers, and acknowledge that there will be an adjustment period. Tony Parker was thrust into a starting role at the age of 19, and he matured over the course of the year, but if you remember, the Spurs almost went after Jason Kidd because Parker was still raw.... And even now Parker is not a 20 ppg scorer...... I think V-Span could average about 6 or 7 points and 3 assists as the backup PG.....and in time could be a 15-8 guy as a starter - in a couple of years. V-Span is our PG of the future, and I think it is time to let him loose and learn while playing. I am not saying he is completely ready, but I am saying it will take him longer if he is not on the court. DD
Thanks for the info. Let me just clarify one thing. When we compare Span to a certain player X, that doesn't necessary mean that we are comparing the talent level. All we are trying to say is that he is the TYPE of player similar to X, and that he has the potential to contribute in similar way as X. For example, saying that he is like Nash doesn't necessarily mean that he has the potential to be a 2-time MVP. It just says that his playing style is like Nash. (I personally don't think he is like Nash.) I compare him to Ginobili because I think he is the same TYPE of player (IF he can develop an outside shot), not the same talent level. And I think he can contribute something like what Manu does for the Spurs. BTW, I remember Popovich said that for each minute he watched Manu play, he lost a minute of his life. Even now, Ginobili can still make Pop flip, LOL.
His playing style is unlike Nash. A fact that nobody appreciates is that Nash's game relies heavily on the fact that he just happens to be an absolute deadeye shooter from outside. The guy shoots over 40% from 3 point range for every single year of his career save one.
he doesn't remind me that much of Ginobli. Ginobli has hops and I haven't seen that from V-Span. Ginobli's jumper is good which helps his game, because teams have to guard him tightly, which helps him take it to the rack. V-Span's jumper is not even respectable right now. Altson>V-Span. V-Span looks lost out there.
IMHO, VSpan will be a bust because he doesn't have what it takes to play in the NBA. Probably a 3rd string guard at best, IMHO. We have aonther Mike Wilks on our hands.
Rafer is pure garbage Tmac said it, we need to improve in some areas, either Bonzi is on his way out or Rafer might be on the trade block haha
When has a euro guy came in and made a immediate impact this side of pau and yao. Manu came off the bench and was reckless, tp took daniels job and was backed by speedy. It takes euro guys just like college guys time. I think if he was practicing better he would be playing more.
Some of you are taking my words totally out of context. I said he has the capacity to give us 20 points. That is not saying that he will be a 20 ppg scorer, night in night out. I was saying that he has the ability to give us 20 when we need it, when the defense is doubling both 111 consistently, he can give us 20 without taking away from anything else. I do not believe that he will do that except as Nash does it, when the occasion calls for it. Come on guys. Rafer has the capacity of giving us 20 points. Of course, he might have to take 72 shots to get it and it will take away from everybody else. VSpan has the capacity to give us 20 and not take away from the game while doing it. Save the idiotic 20 ppg garbage.
Rafer has proven that he cannot handle excessive minutes efficiently. Strangely enough he is better at the end of games, when he is called upon to be a shooter. V-span is the more aggressive player and playmaker, hence he will always average more TO's than Rafer. Unless missed shots start being counted as TO's. The risk taker has more opportunities to fail, but the flip side is the reward opportunites increase as well. Greatness rarely occurs when playing it safe. This is the same whether in basketball, business, or life.
Good post, good thoughts. Rafer is now shooting 35% from 3 and 37% from the field. How many missed open shots equate to a turnover? Right now the Rox Points per shot attempt ratio is 1.228. This of course includes Rafer's dismal shooting numbers of 1.0866 points per shot attempt. When you take Rafer's numbers out the Rox average 1.2548 points per shot attempt. So, you could make a good case that Rafer's shooting is costing us somewhere between 1.73 and 2.06 points per game. ((1.228 or 1.2548-1.0866)*Rafer's shot attempts per game). We can also approximate every turnover is basically worth somewhere between 1.228 and 1.2548 points. So, right now Rafer's poor shooting is probably equal to somewhere around 1.5 turnovers per game. Right now, VSpan's turnover rate (turnovers/minutes) is significantly higher than Rafer's in his limited garbage time minutes. If we take VSpan's turnover rate and multiply it by Rafer's minutes it extrapolates to 3.68 turnovers per game. Rafer is chalking up 2.29 turnovers per game. What that mean is in theory if VSpan were given Rafer's minutes and his turnover rate remained constant, then he would cost us 1.39 turnovers per game which would mean around 1.75 points per game. That is provided VSpan could equal Rafer's pps of 1.0866. Right now, VSpan's PPS is 1.022. If you take the difference between their PPS and extrapolate it with VSpan getting all of Rafer's shots, it equates to another .79 points per game in favor of Rafer. That's with VSpan getting garbage minutes, and playing out of position. LOL I'm not a statistical expert like Durvasa, but it should be fairly obvious to even an average statistician that you can't make a case for justifying VSpan's lack of minutes or Rafer's excessive minutes with VSpan's turnover ratio compared to Rafer as long as Rafer continues to shoot poorly. It's just a tradeoff, a wash. VSpan needs to get some minutes on the floor with 111, running the pick and roll as the point.
V-Span played himself out of the rotation with an abysmal 5 game stretch and JVG has stuck him at the end of the bench. I agree he should get semi-regular action, especially now that there is distance from those games. He deserves another shot at making the rotation. Why JVG is so reluctant to give him ANY minutes seems indefensible to me. With rookie players who have scattered minutes, the stats don't mean as much. You just have to look at what is recently happening when they get on the court. It's about time to give him another chance and if he fails the case will be closed for quite some time. I suppose one could argue the longer JVG waits the more likely V-Span will succeed. For the sake of the Rockets (and for the forum), I'd like to put the debates to rest sooner than later. If Rafer was playing better, my position might be different. Rafer's performance brings this issue to the forefront. If he doesn't improve, JVG had better do something. The fact is we don't have a PG on the current roster we can have confidence in during the playoffs.
let span play 10 straight games, 20-30 min each if he comes up as a turnover machine and does not help the team I will never mention that guy in my life again! hehe
Ain't no way. If he does well with 5-10 minutes per game and Rafer continues to stink, his minutes could be gradually notched up. Just my opinion, but V-Span will definitely get another chance this season to prove himself. DD, even when he officially plays SG, V-Span sometimes operates the point. Even at SG, there are opportunities to penetrate. He's got to make the best of what he gets.
Bad post, bad thoughts. So let me get this straight. You want to replace a bad player with an even worse player.
