Poor Brown. If UT wins last night he still would get bashed. UT had a fine season for basically having no quarterback. Chris Simms got bashed throughout his career but hes a 100 times better than Vince or Mock. Vince cant just drop back sit make his reads than hit the open reciever. Its a called run or he he hits a guy out of the back field. He has 0 ability in his decison making in the pocket. He should watch some tapes of BJ Symons or almsot any other QB's in the big 12. Mock just makes stupid mistakes. Though he should be the starting QB b/c he does have some sucess in the pocket. If UT had a QB last night or for the regular season they would have had alot more success on offense and probaly would have won an extra game or so.
vj, Texas will have good talent coming in, no doubt. I really like Andrew Kelson out of Lamar, and Dockery, Tatum, Walker and others should make for a very well-rounded class. However, if you compare it with the classes of '99-'02, you will see a clear drop-off. For example, in 2002 the headliners were: QB- Vincent Young RB- Selvin Young WR- Marquis Johnson TE- David Thomas OL- Justin Blalock DE- Bryan Pickryl DT- Rodrique Wright LB- Aaron Harris DB- Edorian McCullough 16 of the 27 guys signed were top 10 at their position nationwide. This year, the four I mentioned are the only top 10 nationwide, out of 18 recruits. The '99 class I remember being the most sick. The top offensive and defensive players plus two other HS AA's in Bo Scaife and Alfio Randall, as well as a host of other top players at their positions. Like you said, Texas will have very good talent coming in, but it is a definite downgrade. That is all I am trying to say. The only way the talent could have sustained itself at those astronomical levels would have been if UT had won the national championship, in which case a dynasty would have ensued. I'll give Mack props for bringing it in, but it is already slowly headed south...
Never fear, Mack put this loss in perspective... <I>“We beat LSU last year, and they are playing for the national title,” Brown said.</I> Never mind that we won that same Cotton Bowl last year. Fun with numbers from HornFans: Talent v coaching - Recruiting class rankings - Top 25 '99 -- UT - 1 --- WSU - NR '00 -- UT - 4 --- WSU - NR '01 -- UT - 4 --- WSU - NR '02 -- UT - 1 --- WSU - NR '03 -- UT - 8 --- WSU - NR The source: http://www.totalcommits.com/rankings/
Other teams during that span 2000-03: OU - 15, 6, 8, 4 Ohio State - 8, 14, 2, 15 USC - 9, 17, NR, 3 LSU - 29, 3, 18, 1 Our slogan really should be "doing less with more."
By fan base I am referring to the opinion of the majority of fans. The fans indirectly pay the salary of the coaches. Their opinion does matter. Osborne and Bowden are bad examples to defend Mack. One, Osborne won a piece of the Big 8 title in his second season (FSU did not join a conference until 1991). Two, fan bases were different 25-30 years ago. Coaches weren't being paid multi million dollars and fan bases were patient. Times change. Three, Osborne and Bowden were not below .500 against Top 25 opponents when they won their first MNC.
UT Fans - I feel for you. Until last season OSU was always regarded as a very talented school who could not win a big game. I don't know if Mach Brown is the answer or Spurrier or anyone else. So keep your heads up, some things just take time (like Osborne at Nebraska where it took him a while to get over Oklahoma) other times a change is needed (like Stoops at Oklahoma and Tressel at OSU). But I hoep you don't figure out how to win the big game until a few more years, I think UT and OSU play in 2005!
USC went into the season with a bigger question mark at QB than UT did. UT had Young, who it was safe to assume he would fare ok. USC had Leinart, a seldom-used backup QB. Mock is horrible. When I saw him play in high school, I didn't understand where the hype came from. I am still wondering where his supposed 4.4 speed comes into play.
The 99 class imo, was the worst of the last 4-5. It was only rated #1 because there were about 30 signees in that class. Yes, UT signed Simms and Redding, who were the USA Today Player of the Years on offense and defense, but that added to how overrated that class was. I think UT's 2002 class is the most talented that Mack has brought in. But it's all for naught unless Mack is gone, or until he replaces his coaches.
On point. I've learned to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised if we do win against good teams. That's why I had little confidence in us winning this game. We pad our stats and wins against crap teams but struggle against solid teams and lose to good teams for the most part. I've been done defending Mack since the OU game. Actually, since the Arkansas game. The OU game was a foregone conclusion for me. I stopped caring a long time ago. I just feel bad for the talented players that come in and are not put in the best position to win. They often regress as well. It's great that there's a family atmosphere and all that, but it's about winning. Especially with the $, fanbase, and tradition with this program. If coaching changes at least at the coordinator positions are not made, I could not care less about our 8-10 win season which doesn't mean much. We'll just be a mediocre among elite teams. And all the Mack lovers can point back to the bad times instead of realizing that we should be playing much better than we are NOW. Forget the past. There was never this much talent, $, facilities, and everything else you could ask for. BTW, all that talent often regresses. Look at Selvin Young. He is noticeably slower. Way slower. Put on too much non-functional mass. That's only one example. And I agree that Mock is nowhere near that 4.4 or whatever. Not surprising though since most 40 times are BS anyway.
I know it doesn't change much in way of numbers, but we are still waiting on decisions from Okam and Xavier Lee of Florida. Okam is wavering on us, but I have a feeling he will end up here because of his acknowledgement of the school's commitment to academics(At least moreso than some of the other schools that are recruiting him). We have an outside shot at Lee, who is a QB in the Young mold. He's known for his feet, but he owns the Florida high school records for passing yards, completions, and touchdowns. Both of these guys are definitely difference-makers. You're right...We aren't recruiting as well, but my point is that it doesn't matter how well we recruit until we get over the hump(Beating OU makes everything better...BCS bowl, recruits...). Our classes aren't as good, but that is because we had some hideously good classes...the only place to go was down. Recruiting has taken a hit, but we will likely finish with a top 5 class. What I'm saying is, recruiting does not need to be an immediate concern. Coaching and preparation should have been concerns long ago.
yaopao, That class only appears worse now because the players didn't develop into the stars they should have. 2002 was definitely the best class, but '99-'01 are all neck and neck, and I'd give the nod to '99. Look at the names from '99: Chris Simms, Cory Redding, Bo Scaife, Alfio Randall, Cole Pittman, Rod Babers, OJ McClintock, Ivan Williams, Kendrick Turner, Artie Ellis, Robbie Doane, Monti Collier, Kenny Hayter, Ryan Haywood, etc. It was the best class in the nation that year WITHOUT Chris Simms and was BY FAR the best with him.
vj, I completely agree with that take. Seems you and I were just on different wavelengths at first. Mack is still bringing in talent good enough to win a MNC, but will he make the coaching changes necessary?
I've always thought Mack's recruiting was a little overrated. Not the classes he brings in, but his recruiting power. Schools like Texas, Notre Dame, Michigan, FSU, Miami etc. recruit themselves. I think the breakup of the stagnant SWC and the move to the Big 12 had just as much to do with the resurgence of UT recruiting as Mack did. Maybe more.
Those of you worry about a drop off with UT with Mack gone, well it is a small risk. I think the above case is perfectly clear. At Ohio State, a historical top 5 power like UT, John Cooper was great a recruiting pro level talent. But he coached with an ass as tight as a frog, and his players got out worked, out togethered, out focused, virtually every big game with close enough talent (e.g., Michigan, New Years day games). What happens after they replace Cooper with a good coach at preparing his team and keeping them focused as a team? Well, 2 BCS games and 1 NC in 3 years. It is time for Mack to go, he has done all he can. You can blame the DC, OC, O-Line coach, QB coach, special teams coach, etc, etc, but just maybe the problem is with the head guy--the only common link between them I can find. Fire Mack and most fo the coaching staff save a few mid level ones to keep consistncy in recruiting (Akina?), bring in Spurrior, it is time for a change. The truth is I wasn't even that dissappointed in the OU or WSU loss this year (Arkansas, I was furious I admit), I have learned to expect excuses and unfulfilled promises from Mack's teams. Of course I should have added better coached and prepared along with more motivated--remember Tech the last 2 years, Oregon, CU 2 years ago, Houston Nutt (twice in 3 years), etc, etc. I think it takes a special talent to produce a lacksaidasical and unfocused college football team (did ya'll see Sloan and Benson b****ing at each other in the 3rd quarter????, unthinkable for a team) that includes many of the players last game of their college career. The man (Mack) just spreads unclutchness, excuses and feebleness to players and teams that inhibits their substantial talents.
Wouldn't hold my breath on Lee. Also, Mack is no John Cooper. Coop did win a big ten title and was successful in the pac ten.
How the hell the offensive coordinator for UT ever got a job I will never know. Where did that guy come from??? I wouldnt let that moron coach a freaking pee wee football team..... Mack Brown should not be cannned...... His assistants should be! You have the ball at the 5. Give the rock to Cedric Benson for the love of God. And for chrissake pick a damn QB - enough of this rotation bullsh!t....
I believe it was the three. First down. Hell, even on the second to last drive when Roy caught a pass and went down to the 10, I thought we should have run the ball. With four plays, I am confident that our running game would have gotten us in the endzone. Instead we continue to throw 22 straight passes, and Chance fumbles it.
