James Thomas is clearly wrong, if you want to help go get your teamate OUT of there. Don't go in kicking and throwing punches. The man with the pregnant wife was wrong, he should have helped her up. What is it they say? Oh, yeah, 2 wrongs don't make a right. JT should be suspended at least a game. The police up there should handle the Okie fan. It is an unfortunate instance all the way around. DD
Timing, Take off the blinders and look at the situation objectively, TJ went into the crowd chasing a loose ball and accidentally ran into a pregnant woman. Now the guy instead of helping his wife, goes out and chokes ford and yet you think our player who came in hot and pissed off our star player was getting manhandled by a crazed fan is WORSE. Please, JT was sticking up for a teammate in trouble, ask any player and they want players like him on the team. I dont necessarily think a punch was necessary but at the heat of the moment, Ford getting choked and Ivey getting hassled I understand his response and yes, a suspension for one game is probably in order. Its sure a hell of a lot weaker than the fan who started this whole thing by not using COMMON SENSE and choking TJ when it was clearly an ACCIDENT. Yet, you seem to think Thomas was the one out of line, gimme a break. Like, the others i want to know why you hate on UT fans and the University, are you a gomer who's jealous, or a sooner who thinks were overrated again, because to be quite honest, you're way out of line on this one and whether or not my post hits home I ask what did we(being UT ) ever DO TO YOU ? Because, while I have high expectations, I am not an eternal optimist and yes in football we have reason to be somewhat disappointed we gave away a trip to Pasadena, but beating Washington heals part of the wound. In basketball, I will not proclaim us final four caliber but barnes has this program in the right direction and even without owens I would not put it past us to contend for the Big 12 title and we definitely are on the rise. Overall, I think you have missed the boat completely when referring to the university of texas at austin and its students and supporters like me and pued and rm95, smokey, Joe Joe, etc as we are diehard fans who strive for greatness and if that isn't the definition of a great fan i DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!. If you have trouble understanding our position, then just ask, instead of always posting incomprehensible jabs at us and our pride for our University because we are easy to talk to and get to know and are for the most part very knowledgeable sports fans.
Good post DV. Sorry, Timing, but I have to agree. I'm not a Horns fan, but after seeing the replay and reading about it, the man had no reason whatsoever to grab Ford harshly and attempt to choke him. If I saw one of your friends being maliciously harassed by a crazed fan, I would jump in and do something about it. Yes, the woman is pregnant. But it was clear that Ford was definitely trying to help her. Thomas will definitely be suspended, but for helping a teammate I wouldn't be too mad. If the one OSU fan wouldn't have put his hands around a Texas player's neck, the ridiculous melee wouldn't have happened in the first place.
Ok, I've watched the video of the incident several times, and this is what I saw : 1) That guy in the fuschia shirt not only tried to kick Ivey, he connected(you can see a head snap from Ivey as the foot hits his chin) That guy will be Ass #1, since he didn't appear to be with any pregnant women, I'm going to assume he was just looking to start trouble. 2) The guy who started the melee was actually behind his wife when Ford ran into her, the only thing he was protecting her from was someone trying to help her up - which he never did. In fact, starting a fight near her could've resulted in her being stepped on, or rolled onto while she was on the floor. Meet Ass #2. 3) James Thomas overreacted, but he was going to the defense of his teammate, but it does appear he threw a punch(though, he heistated in mid punch before continuing the strike down - the video is too hazy to see if the punch landed, or even if he had a clencehd fist at that point). He shouldn't have done that - though his motives were good, he should've just tried to pull people off Ford and Ivey like Mouton was doing. 4) I hope the pregnant woman is ok. 5) I hope the guy who kicked Ivey, and the guy who started the fight get permanently expelled from Gallagher-Iba Arena.
Why don't YOU take off the blinders and look at the situation objectively. How many times is someone going to say this fan is out of line for grabbing Ford and then come up with the epic "Thomas was just defending his teammate" by jumping into a crowd of people swinging wildly. WTF is THAT? I don't care if you're a UT gomer, a UT homer, a drugged out UT drop out, or whatever other fine witty UT cut downs are being used nowadays. Looking at the situation OBJECTIVELY, it's asinine to say this fan should be arrested and then James Thomas shouldn't be. Your statements about this situation are simply UT back your player under any circumstances hogwash. How difficult is it for some of you to get it through your thick skulls the difference between a pregnant woman and a grown man? HE - friggin - LLO!?? Yadda yadda yadda... please, this fan was sticking up for his pregnant wife possibly injured after being trampled, ask any wife and they'd want a husband who would stick up for them. I dont necessarily think grabbing the player was necessary but in the heat of the moment, his wife getting slammed to the concrete and all, I understand his response and yes, a charge of battery is probably in order. It's sure a hell of a lot weaker than the thug who jumped into a crowd of people swinging wildly and not using COMMON SENSE and trying to knock someone out when this fan was simply trying to defend his wife. Yet, you seem to think the fan was out of line for grabbing Ford while Fight Club James Thomas was perfectly fine for jumping into a crowd to knock someone out with haymakers. Incidentally, this UT hater thing is preposterous. It just so happens UT seems to be the only university that is discussed on these boards with any frequency. I'm sure if someone from A&M, or Tech, or wherever came in and made dubious statements I'd likely disagree with them also.
As long as you refuse to, why should I? Thomas threw one punch, and it wasn't much of a punch - he was not "swinging wildly" as you so inaccurately put it. You're right, how silly of me. Thomas was defending his teammate from a mob of fans, including one who was choking him. The fan was defending his pregnant wife from an apology - obviously Thomas is in the wrong. What happened to the woman was an accident one which Ford was trying to apologize for when the fan apparently decided that helping up his wife could wait, and decided the smart thing to do was start a fight right on top of her. Just like he sticked up for her by holding her in front of him while the players came flying in, or defending her from the viciousness of TJ Ford's apology, or starting a fight, and putting her in more danger - hell, in the heat of the moment TJ Ford cared more for the well-being of that woman than her husband did. I don't understand how "attacking the player who accidentally ran into her and was trying to apologize" ranks above "make sure pregnant wife is OK" on the priorities list - it certainly wouldn't rank there on mine. So, I don't understand his response at all. Again you refuse to represent what happened accurately. Defend his wife? From what? An Apology? What a valiant man, they should cast him in bronze and make a statue for all to see. Its bull**** to suggest that, if anyone is the thug here its the guy who decided to choke Ford, and the guy who tried to kick Ivey. And again - one punch, and it was a wek punch, certainly not a "haymaker" as you - once again - inaccurately put it. Just like your mischaracterizations about the University, perhaps your constant misrepresentations about Texas are the reason you have a rep as a UT "hater". Just as I am clearly biased for Texas, you are even more biased against it. Yet you make even more dubious statements yourself when attacking Texas. You have taken a side not even most Oklahoma St fans have taken in this - yet you present it as an objective viewpoint - I'd type more, but my sides are about to burst with laughter with this blatant doublespeak.
Why I'm even bothering to reply to you is beyond me timing, but let's put the equation together: ford goes into stands for loose ball, accidentally bumps a pregnant woman(by no means am I mad at her but the guy's reaction was inappropriate) and the husband presumably instead of tending after her, starts choking ford, while royal ivey was getting kicked by that fan in the pic posted above. Thus, james thomas rushes in as the team protectorate and looks to break up the fight using whatever means necessary and maybe, has it occurred to you, that in this kind of situation he may have in the heat of the moment did what came instinctively to him and while I don't condone violence, the way these two fans were acting, in all honesty they had it coming to them. As I mentioned above, a one or two game suspension is probably in order and I'm fine with that but you have to take the context of the situation into view before assessing judgement. Of course on the street if he punches people for no reason, yes he gets sent to jail, but this is where a friend and teammate was in a position to be considered in serious danger, thus the action while possibly inappropriate does not warrant such a harsh punishment. I'm not condoing violence in anything, I've never been in a fight or ever will be hopefully, but to suggest James Thomas was more out of line than the crazed OSU fans is flat out PROPOSTEROUS and shows a clear and present bias, imho. If the facts would substiantate your side, I'd be willing to consider your viewpoint, but quite frankly it doesn't and I saw the videotape and from experience in other threads you really do seem to get some sort of "kick" out of badgering certain teams fans. The sad part is I'm not an unreasonable fan to get along with, unless you like to keep jabbing at me and my school, plus ask a number of people I love sports period. The same can be said for puedlfor, rm95, smokey, baqui, etc who have posted and defended our team and university in various other threads. So instead of badgering us, why don't you at least try to converse and see our side of things before you rush to judgement on us, because right now your overall opinion of us and UT fans as a whole is inaccurate, because while every university has its bad apples, we are some of the smartest and most supporting fans in the country, especially when it comes to football.
Timing, I am not getting into the UT pro/anti-bias thing. But your reading of the situation, regardless of the teams involved, is ludicres. Check the OSU boards someone thoughtfully listed, even the majority of their fans put the bulk of the blame on the OSU fan. Let us just focus on the situation, not the schools involved: How many times to players go sprawling into stands and accolades are sent for them hustling and risking their well-being for team success?? How many times have fans been knocked over---surely quite often this includes wives, dates, children, etc.? All the time, it is part of the game if you choose front court seats. However no part of being a basketball fan includes pushing a player, yet alone choking player. Outside of players intentionally harming fans--Maxwell, perhaps Rodman--their is just no reasonable excuse for fan violence, I don't care if your 2 year old toddler and wife both gets knocked over in the course of legal, strait, hustle plays, that is no excuse. Usually, the first response of a caring husband/father would be to help the child, mother, wife, etc. accidently hit, not escalate the violence into a melee that could further damage their family. Basically, all fans who act violently toward players should be banned from sponsored events by the Universities/teams involved and charged as appropriate with local law. In recent years fans have been banned for chucking snowballs, let alone chocking, hitting, kicking or pushing athletes. That is just a line that cannot be crossed (deliberate physical controntations between fans/players). However, Thomas should be suspended, as he would for partipating in any fight in <i> the context of the game </i>. However, that should be handled not by the legal system but by the school, conference and NCAA as most all fights (by sponsered athletes) during such athletic events are handled (very few are sent to the legal system). If you don't recognize the greater threat of fans violent reactions (and potentailly enticing mob behavior in 10,000 folks) versus the violent reactions of players in the context of protecting their teammates (whether to fans or opponents) then I just don't think you have a clear read on this situation. I don't think anyone is saying Thomas's actions don't deserve repercusssions, but the gravity of his actions in the context of his teammates being threatened (whether by other players, fans) pale relative to deliberate violent actions by the fans.
As long as you refuse to, why should I? Is this the kindergarten debate equivalent of I know what you are but what am I? Thomas threw one punch, and it wasn't much of a punch - he was not "swinging wildly" as you so inaccurately put it. Thomas threw the FIRST punch and yes it was a WILD punch because from what I've read from one OSU fan he hit his OWN teammate. You're right, how silly of me. Thomas was defending his teammate from a mob of fans, including one who was choking him. The fan was defending his pregnant wife from an apology - obviously Thomas is in the wrong. One fan is never a "mob" so it is pretty damn silly of you. The fan reacted to the running over of his pregnant wife in a less dangerous manner than Thomas reacted to seeing his teammate being grabbed. Two wrongs don't make a right even if you're a biased UT fan. What happened to the woman was an accident one which Ford was trying to apologize for when the fan apparently decided that helping up his wife could wait, and decided the smart thing to do was start a fight right on top of her. How do you know what Ford was trying to do? Nobody here knows what was said in those few seconds by the wife, the fan, or any of the players. Just like he sticked up for her by holding her in front of him while the players came flying in, or defending her from the viciousness of TJ Ford's apology, or starting a fight, and putting her in more danger - hell, in the heat of the moment TJ Ford cared more for the well-being of that woman than her husband did. Is "sticked up for her" UT English? No wonder the state of Texas has such a poor education record. (I better put a smilie here so I don't get an anti-state of Texas label too) What the fan did prior to the accident means nothing to the rightness of wrongness of his actions afterward. The fan was 100% wrong just like Thomas was 100% wrong. The fact is the fan was angered and tried to defend his wife just like Thomas was angered and tried to defend his teammate. I don't understand how "attacking the player who accidentally ran into her and was trying to apologize" ranks above "make sure pregnant wife is OK" on the priorities list - it certainly wouldn't rank there on mine. So, I don't understand his response at all. Who cares whether or not you understand his response? Again that's completely irrelevant to what Thomas did. I don't understand why someone defending their teammate would rush in to punch someone, causing more of a situation, instead of trying to hold people back. Again you refuse to represent what happened accurately. Defend his wife? From what? An Apology? What a valiant man, they should cast him in bronze and make a statue for all to see. Its bull**** to suggest that, if anyone is the thug here its the guy who decided to choke Ford, and the guy who tried to kick Ivey. Defend his wife and unborn child from someone who just knocked her over and was kneeling over her maybe? Again it's your UT bias that's castigating this man for doing less than Thomas. And again - one punch, and it was a wek punch, certainly not a "haymaker" as you - once again - inaccurately put it. A punch from a 6'8" 220 pound collegiate athlete is weak? Then what's a regular ole fan grabbing a player? That must be REALLY weak. Just like your mischaracterizations about the University, perhaps your constant misrepresentations about Texas are the reason you have a rep as a UT "hater". Just as I am clearly biased for Texas, you are even more biased against it. What mischaracterizations about the University have I made? Now you're really going into Disneyland material. Yet you make even more dubious statements yourself when attacking Texas. You have taken a side not even most Oklahoma St fans have taken in this - yet you present it as an objective viewpoint - I'd type more, but my sides are about to burst with laughter with this blatant doublespeak. Nowhere anywhere have I "attacked" Texas. That's a preposterous statement and it's making ME laugh. I'm glad you're done attacking ME but thanks for your biased UT supporter view of the incident.
Nowhere did I say Thomas was more out of line than this fan, I simply said that what the fan did (grabbing/choking) is less criminal than what Thomas did (throwing a punch when he wasn't involved). You continue to defend Thomas by saying catch phrases like "heat of the moment" but anyone can use those same things to defend the fan. A pregnant woman could possibly lose her child by being knocked over like that, even if it is an accident. The woman and her husband had a hell of a lot more to lose by this accident than TJ Ford did by his reaction. AND the fan's reaction I think directly corresponded to that but that is certainly no defense for what he did which was certainly illegal and out of line. Just like what Thomas did was illegal and out of line. I'm not defending the fan or Thomas, but all of you are trying to defend Thomas while ripping the fan. Nice...
Timing, I am not getting into the UT pro/anti-bias thing. But your reading of the situation, regardless of the teams involved, is ludicres. Check the OSU boards someone thoughtfully listed, even the majority of their fans put the bulk of the blame on the OSU fan. The OSU fans I've read rightly blame the fan for being a fool but they also would like something done to Thomas for what he did. The blame of the fan for starting the altercation is not a defense for what Thomas did IMHO. Let us just focus on the situation, not the schools involved: How many times to players go sprawling into stands and accolades are sent for them hustling and risking their well-being for team success?? How many times have fans been knocked over---surely quite often this includes wives, dates, children, etc.? All the time, it is part of the game if you choose front court seats. However no part of being a basketball fan includes pushing a player, yet alone choking player. Outside of players intentionally harming fans--Maxwell, perhaps Rodman--their is just no reasonable excuse for fan violence, I don't care if your 2 year old toddler and wife both gets knocked over in the course of legal, strait, hustle plays, that is no excuse. Usually, the first response of a caring husband/father would be to help the child, mother, wife, etc. accidently hit, not escalate the violence into a melee that could further damage their family. Basically, all fans who act violently toward players should be banned from sponsored events by the Universities/teams involved and charged as appropriate with local law. In recent years fans have been banned for chucking snowballs, let alone chocking, hitting, kicking or pushing athletes. That is just a line that cannot be crossed (deliberate physical controntations between fans/players). Yeah, I'm not debating whether the guy is a caring husband or even a rational person but he was trying to defend his wife. Whether or not you agree with it or think it's stuipd, there is no doubt that's what he was doing. I don't disagree with much of what you're saying. However, Thomas should be suspended, as he would for partipating in any fight in <i> the context of the game </i>. However, that should be handled not by the legal system but by the school, conference and NCAA as most all fights (by sponsered athletes) during such athletic events are handled (very few are sent to the legal system). If you don't recognize the greater threat of fans violent reactions (and potentailly enticing mob behavior in 10,000 folks) versus the violent reactions of players in the context of protecting their teammates (whether to fans or opponents) then I just don't think you have a clear read on this situation. I don't think anyone is saying Thomas's actions don't deserve repercusssions, but the gravity of his actions in the context of his teammates being threatened (whether by other players, fans) pale relative to deliberate violent actions by the fans. Well I disagree here. Thomas was throwing punches in the crowd, not on the court. Thomas' actions were certainly deliberate and more violent than that of the fan. A punch from an athlete is certainly a more violent blow than a fan grabbing a player, even if by the neck. The claim that Thomas was "defending" his teammate is more dubious to me than all of you railing the fan for "defending" his wife. Throwing punches isn't a defensive action when the attacker is laying on his back with two players on top of him. He wasn't defending Ford as much as he was trying to get a punch in. And here I thought this thread had died but it's still ALIVE like a bad Frankenstein.
No, Its the equivilant of saying, "Pot this is the kettle, guess what, you're the same color I am", I thought it was rather obvious what I was trying to say. In the future, I will try to be more clear. But it wasn't "swinging wildly" as you kept putting it. He threw one punch at a fan attacking his teammate, he did not go running in there swingin at anything that moved. Well, there were at least two fans, including the fan that kicked Ivey, and then there was another fan that threw a water bottle at the UT bench, then there was the general level of hostility(one OSU poster says it was worse than the bedlam series) and then there were at least a dozen OSU fans around Ford and the fan. And I shouldn't forget that the overhead shot of the incident showed a large number of fans making there way down from the upper part of the stands to the area of the incident. There motives were unknown, and though generally OSU fans are supposed to be good, the general level of hostility in the arena makes their motives at least somewhat suspiciou s. TJ Ford does. And he said so in the paper. Anything other than an apology and a concer for the woman's well-being would've been entirely inconsistent with Ford's behavior here on the 40 Acres. Actually, it means a great deal. The fan had a chance to defend his wife from the impact, but did nothing. Then the fan attacked Ford. Thomas was defending his teammate from a credible, tangible threat - you still haven't told me what the fan was defending his wife from. What did he think, that Ford was going to finish her off? I mean, is he really that stupid? Well, if its choking a player who nearly had neck surgery this fall because of a problem with his spinal column, then its a great deal more dangerous than what Thomas did. Yes, its not like you didn't just attack The University of Texas' education record as poor. I have done nothing but present what I feel is the truth of the matter, obviously its going to be skewed towards The University because of my bias, but its even less skewed than your anti-Texas slant. If I attacked you, then I apologize, I was merely a little annoyed at your refusal to remove your head from your ass regarding this incident, because when you take a viewpoint that not even Aggies take concerning this incident, it boggles the mind.
No, Its the equivilant of saying, "Pot this is the kettle, guess what, you're the same color I am", I thought it was rather obvious what I was trying to say. In the future, I will try to be more clear. So you're saying you're biased and I must be biased, so your opinion is correct or it matters where you went to school or what team you root for? Not everyone is incapable of impartiality. But it wasn't "swinging wildly" as you kept putting it. He threw one punch at a fan attacking his teammate, he did not go running in there swingin at anything that moved. It was a wild punch and one OSU fan (possibly more) have stated that he hit his own teammate. Regardless though, even if it wasn't a wild punch it was still a punch of a fan on his back which is > a grab/choke. Well, there were at least two fans, including the fan that kicked Ivey, and then there was another fan that threw a water bottle at the UT bench, then there was the general level of hostility(one OSU poster says it was worse than the bedlam series) and then there were at least a dozen OSU fans around Ford and the fan. And I shouldn't forget that the overhead shot of the incident showed a large number of fans making there way down from the upper part of the stands to the area of the incident. There motives were unknown, and though generally OSU fans are supposed to be good, the general level of hostility in the arena makes their motives at least somewhat suspiciou s. So again you justify a punch by Thomas on a fan laying on his back because of thrown water bottles at the bench 100 feet away that Thomas couldn't have seen and a general level of hostility that Thomas had about a split second to judge before he ran in to throw the punch? You're painting a picture from the viewpoint of someone watching on television or being in the stands as an observer, not from the viewpoint of James Thomas. TJ Ford does. And he said so in the paper. Anything other than an apology and a concer for the woman's well-being would've been entirely inconsistent with Ford's behavior here on the 40 Acres. I don't know what he said but I'd be curious to read what all three of them said. Actually, it means a great deal. The fan had a chance to defend his wife from the impact, but did nothing. Then the fan attacked Ford. Thomas was defending his teammate from a credible, tangible threat - you still haven't told me what the fan was defending his wife from. So if Ford had accidentally shot his wife at the gun range would you castigate him for not jumping in front of the bullet and then attacking Ford? What he did prior to the accident has no bearing on anything. If he had jumped in front and then threw a punch at Ford or choked him would that make it any better? Of course not. Trying to blame the fan for not jumping in front of his wife so "it's all his fault anyway" is not a defense for what Thomas did. A fan laying on his back with two college athletes on top of him isn't a credible, tangible threat unless that fan is Hulk Hogan or something. Seriously, lay down on your back and pick two big guys to stand over you and see how scared they are. What did he think, that Ford was going to finish her off? I mean, is he really that stupid? Maybe he is stupid or maybe he's a racist or maybe he was just friggin pissed that they were losing and some player toppled his wife or maybe he was scared that his wife would lose her baby and snapped. It doesn't really matter because what he did was illegal any way you slice it. Well, if its choking a player who nearly had neck surgery this fall because of a problem with his spinal column, then its a great deal more dangerous than what Thomas did. Nah, have you ever been laying on your back and let someone 6'8" 220 pounds take a swing at you? Yes, its not like you didn't just attack The University of Texas' education record as poor. Actually I was joking about education in Texas which is in fact very poor. Texas doesn't always mean the university, there is this whole big state that shares the name of your school. I have done nothing but present what I feel is the truth of the matter, obviously its going to be skewed towards The University because of my bias, but its even less skewed than your anti-Texas slant. If I attacked you, then I apologize, I was merely a little annoyed at your refusal to remove your head from your ass regarding this incident, because when you take a viewpoint that not even Aggies take concerning this incident, it boggles the mind. Well, I've simply tried to present the viewpoint that both the fan and Thomas are guilty of crimes. You've taken that as some defense of the fan thing and extrapilated that into some laughable UT hating blasphemy. The old shoot the messenger thing or the shout him down thing doesn't work with me so maybe you and whatever fellow lock step UT sheep should stop sitting around trying to come up with clever insults because the old head from your ass thing as overrated as your UT defense was all year long.
I'm not a Texas or Oklahoma State fan so I'm not in the middle of your wars! Here's my take, it was obvious that the Texas player knocked over the woman by accident and I think the fan overreacted BIG TIME! I don't care if his wife was pregnant, I just looked at his reaction. He saw his wife go down and saw the guy try to help her up. His response, "Hey I think I'll start choking people". The reason I don't buy into the "he just snapped because his wife was pregnant" because 1.)He knew it wasn't on purpose, 2.)He didn't react right away he reacted when another player came over to make sure everything was ok. I don't like bench clearing brawls, but think about it. If you're walking down the street and you see a couple of your friends in a crowd and one of them is being choked how do you think you would react? It was hostile grounds with thousands of fans yelling and screaming at them and one fan attacking them. I can understand the guy being upset about what happened to his wife but the fact that he didn't start attacking people until they started to try and help her tells me this was more of a macho thing with him and not truly him "snapping". I wonder if this guy would have "snapped" if it was an Oklahoma State player that accidently knocked her down. I mean if you accidently bump a guy from behind and he has his wife and kids in the car does that give him free reigns to get out his car and choke you without any reprecussions?
timing, Few here agree with you, yet all others are thick-headed and asinine? There IS a difference between someone 'defending' someone from an unitentional action of another, and someone else defending someone from an INTENTIONAL ASSAULT by another. If you cannot grasp that concept, who is asinine? Regardless, the husband is a total idiot for seating his pregnant wife on the floor! He is TOTALLY responsible for the situation and any aggressive actions that he would take deserve defensive actions in return, including fists IMHO.
