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Usman Garuba's play in Spain vs. Slovenia

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Andrei Kirilenko. That’s an interesting comp - I could see that.
     
  2. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I wonder what the ages are of the guys on the Spanish team. I obviously know the ages of Gasol bros and Rubio.
     
  3. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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  5. omgTHEpotential

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    As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, Turkish league is way below the Euroleague, and slightly below the Spanish ACB. So what Sengun did is certainly not close to what Doncic has done when he absolutely dominated the Euroleague. But it's definitely a lot more than what Darko has done.
     
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  6. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    What are you, a Jazz aficionado? I don’t know you, but if I did and only had this post to go by, I clearly wouldn’t lump you with most of the smart people. (That’s the guy though.)
     
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  7. omgTHEpotential

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    Andrei Kirilenko is a really high praise. If Garuba reaches even 80% of what Kirilenko was at pick #23, this pick would be one of the greatest in the Rockets history. Thing with Kirilenko, is that while he was a defensive beast, he also had an all around game and very high IQ, and great court-vision.
     
  8. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    You know he played on other teams besides the Jazz right? There is a whole world out there just waiting to be discovered!
     
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  9. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Yeah - one of the few guys to be in the 5x5 club multiple times. Watching videos I can see how Garuba lacks offensive polish but given how obviously talented he is defensively I’m kind of shocked just how he dropped that far in the draft. Maybe I am just seeing the scouting videos and not taking it all in but I wanted him before the draft based on my own research into the top wing defenders in the draft and it seemed like most scouts thought he was a likely lotto pick so I’m really curious why he slid the way he did.
     
  10. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

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    seems like he’s putting up PJ Tucker numbers in just 7 minutes.
     
  11. CXbby

    CXbby Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Good o'l AK47! I personally don't see it though. AK47 was a much more versatile scorer iirc.
     
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  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    The ugly dude is now face and commish of Russian bball federation.
     
  14. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    1. He is an international player; they almost always get overhyped or underestimated. Giannis went 15, Ginobli when 57, Parker went 28, Dragic went 45, Jovic went 41, Nash went 15... the list goes on and on.
    2. He is a crappy (mediocre at best) shooter currently, which definitely doesn't help win him any brownie points in the modern NBA's spacing era. There is a reason Dray went at 35, despite being a defensive savant.
     
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  15. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    Lack of offense.
     
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  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    What? Lateral quickness, size, wingspan and body control all definitely matter in the NBA. The league is better now at weeding out busts than ever before and that is largely due to science and a greater amount of information.

    Yeah, he was wiped off the floor BECAUSE of greater information, because teams now can play multiple ways and players can shoot and move and pass better than ever before. 30 years ago he would be on the court regardless of line ups. The game is more complicated, and requires a larger skill set than ever before.

    False, no one said it is a necessity, but it is strongly preferred and in many cases a lack of foot speed is a huge hinderance. Is Jokic in the league if his offense isn't so developed? Nope, he is so good on the offensive side of the ball that you can over look his lack of foot speed on the defensive side of the ball. A lack of foot speed is my Jokic isn't an all time great center. Also, what have the Nuggets won? How many Jokic's have there been? The funny thing is that 30 years ago his lack of lateral quickness would matter less because the game was different. Make sure you give the "nerds" credit for that.

    As for Brook Lopez, the Bucks just had an incredibly easy Finals run. They were dead in the water until Harden AND Kyrie were hurt. Further they played a Suns team that also got lucky playing teams with multiple stars out. This year was an outlier. Even with that, there were times that Brook Lopez was NOT playable.

    Basketball HAS changed greatly over time, and that is part of what makes it a compelling game. If you don't think that foot speed and wingspan and other measurable matter, then you do not know basketball. They are not the be all, end all but they are important. If they didn't matter, then Garza would score 25 points a night in the NBA next year. The league is riddled with guys that are highly skilled but lack the physical attributes to stay on the court......... sometimes physical attributes really are important.
     
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  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He dropped for a few reasons. A lot of teams have doubts that he will ever develop his offensive game to the point where he isn't a liability. He can be a very good defender, but if he does not hit open shots from the perimeter and finish inside, then he is going to be a fringe player most likely. There are a number of guys like that in the league and the vast majority are getting limited minutes and have limited demand in the open market.

    Also, a lot of scouts think that he is close to physically maxed out with his body and there isn't a lot of growth there to improve. Two years ago he was arguably the top international prospect and slipped since then because of a lack of improvement on the offensive side.

    People point at Draymond Green and PJ Tucker as examples, but they are VERY rare. In the case of Tucker and Green, they have basketball IQ's that are off the charts and flourished in basketball situations that were literally ideal for them. Green may not be "Green" had he not been on GS, which covered his real limitations. Tucker ended up with Harden and Paul and they covered up his limitations. Also Tucker and especially Green are very good passers and make few mistakes.

    I am fine with the drafting of Garuba. I do believe he will be a very good defender, and has the physical attributes and the mentality to really shut some guys down all over the court. However he will have to develop a consistent three point shot, and he will have to improve scoring inside and become smarter in his spacing and rolling to the basket. It is far from certain he will do these things. Is he playable at 35-36% from 3 on medium volume? Possibly if the Rockets have fire power at the other 4 spots.... but even then he is likely looking at a bench rotation spot. What if he shoots 40%? Then you really have a high end role player.... but teams don't typically like drafting guys with a reasonable CEILING of a high end role player.
     
  18. NewAge

    NewAge Member

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    I think you're wrong on many of these points!!
    I don't mean to be absolutist, there is some evolution as well as ebb and flow to the game of basketball. There is also a lot of evolution in training, nutrition, orthopedic science, etc.

    My point was that there is also a lot of junk science and BS that is being peddled to us as valuable insight. Most of what these bloggers are trying to pass as "science" is pure garbage, not science at all. They are looking for statistical patterns, but they don't know how to do it and don't have any scientific rigor, so they are just finding noise that superficially fits their narratives.

    BTW, same is true for Morey, who is a total fraud. He got some "nerd cred" from the likes of Bill Simmons and others and made it his brand, but he's not a scientist at all, he's a shallow business school grad and most of his "discoveries" are complete garbage. Morey-ball, I think we can all agree has been exposed as complete fraud. In 2017 old-man-river Popovich who is a true-grit anti-nerd, just clowned the whole concept by dropping his bigs against Harden and the whole concept disintegrated as papier-mache when Harden had no idea what to do, even though any "non-scientific" basketball mind would have had the perfect solution - take midrange shots for F sake!! The same midrange that we have seen in the Finals the last couple of years from Butler, Chris Paul, Middleton, Booker etc. That's one year lost for the franchise because of stupid Morey-ball...

    Then you had the whole 0 for 27 debacle, which were supposed to be "high expected FG shots" based on fake science. Except that they were not! They drew a hypothesis based on a regular season dataset that is inapplicable to the playoffs. What looks like a high probability corner 3 from P.J. Tucker is actually not when the guy has no legs left from chasing KD around for 40 mins in a high leverage game.

    That game was one of the most traumatic experiences for me as a Rockets fan. Honestly, I felt that had we suited the then 53-year old Hakeem for a few post-ups against the 6-8 Draymond we would have won that game...Guess what: basketball lifers like Shaq and Barkley would have told you that, without any scientific pretension. Why? Because they are true students of the game, their brains have seen so many patterns that have been analyzed subconsciously to get to valuable insights. We are now trying to emulate the human brain via AI, why? because the brain is a very powerful data analysis machine and pattern recognition machine. We need to trust the judgement of basketball lifers much more that junk science wannabes like Morey and the blog-boys...

    Which brings me to lateral quickness and foot speed: of course it is good to have! But we need to evaluate PLAYERS, not their body parts. If you know and love basketball and you have studied and watched the game you will know a player with your eyes, and that is much more valuable test than these junk science measurements of various body parts and made-up metrics. That's what I am sayin.
     
  19. DasouthDakota

    DasouthDakota Rookie

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    great post.
     
  20. Losmi_34

    Losmi_34 Member

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    What I like about Garuba, is that he has great instincts.

    If you haven't, you guys should watch his film session with Schmitz. He explains how he works on the court, and points out his mistakes in defending certain situations. And he looks like a high character guy, listening and learning from vets on his team.

    He has great physical tools, plays hard and enjoys playing tough defense. On offense he just needs to develop a reliable 3 point shot, and he will be a good piece.

    I think we can develop him into a super role player type, a guy essential to a deep playoff run. We need that kind of a player, a defensive anchor and glue guy.
     
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