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[USA Today] Five trades we'd make

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by xcrunner51, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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    I think this is an absolutely ludicrous trade proposal, one on par with most forum trade proposals, but if it went down, I wouldn't complain ;)

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2006-11-07-suggested-trades_x.htm

    Vernon Wells to Astros

    (The deal: Astros get OF Vernon Wells. Blue Jays get RHP Fernando Nieve, UT Chris Burke.)

    Toronto's biggest dilemma this winter is what to do with Wells, their most complete player. His contract has one year to go at $5.77 million but the internal debate about whether to even attempt to sign him to a new deal has been going on for at least a year.

    It's not that the Blue Jays have to do anything with Wells, but if they have any doubts about keeping him beyond this year, he has more value in a trade now than at the July 31 deadline. Plus, if the Blue Jays are a contender, as they anticipate, it's hardly good form to be moving a player of Wells' caliber during the season.

    An offseason trade is the way to go but the key is getting good value for a career .288 hitter who has averaged 29 home runs over the past four seasons and will turn 28 in December. Houston is a good fit because the Astros desperately need another impact bat. The right-handed Wells could take advantage of the short left-field porch at Minute Maid Park and fit nicely as a No. 3 hitter in front of Lance Berkman. More important, he grew up in Texas, which could give the Astros a better chance of working out a long-term deal with Wells before he becomes a free agent.

    Wells' trade value would be higher if the team that's getting him knows it has a good chance to keep him. Meanwhile, Toronto can address some needs and still create more payroll flexibility. The Blue Jays spent freely last winter by signing pitchers A.J. Burnett and B.J. Ryan and trading for third baseman Troy Glaus. But the Blue Jays' shortcomings in 2006 mostly were among their supporting cast. The lower part of the rotation was a disappointment and Toronto is still at least one middle infielder short of being a serious playoff contender.

    Adding a promising young pitcher such as Nieve, who is ready to step into a major league rotation (and has the potential to set up and close, as well), would help Toronto's pitching depth, and the versatile Burke fits nicely into the low-priced pieces the Blue Jays have used well. These include Reed Johnson and Frank Catalanotto. Burke could play second base if the Blue Jays want to put Aaron Hill at shortstop or Burke could work into the outfield mix.

    That allows the Blue Jays to look for an impact bat either in the infield, because Hill could play shortstop or second base or the outfield. Take Wells' salary plus an additional $10 million-$12 million in payroll room Ricciardi expects to have and the Jays have plenty of good options.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    This trade would be done in a nanosecond... hopefully a Billy Beane clone is smarter than this (although they all LOVE Chris Burke).
     
  3. fadeaway

    fadeaway Contributing Member

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    That's pretty crazy. The population of Toronto would have JP's head on a platter if that were to happen. Getting Wells would take nothing less than Berkman or Oswalt.
     
  4. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't go that far... if they have to trade him due to him being a free agent, it wouldn't take that much.

    A top level prospect would be expected (especially if they get a third team involved), but you wouldn't need to trade marquee names.
     
  5. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    Not when...

    1) You want some payroll flexibility. You get that with 2 young players that you have control of for many more years.

    2) Wells has publicly stated that he doesn't plan to re-sign with Toronto and they don't want to lose him for nothing.

    This would be a fantastic move for the Astros. The only potential drawback is losing Burke's versatility...then again, same with Nieve.
     
  6. fadeaway

    fadeaway Contributing Member

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    That's all well and good, but I can tell you that the predominent mood in Toronto is that the Jays have all the pieces in place to make the playoffs, and are just a guy or two away from major success next year. They are in win now mode and there is no way they will trade away their best player for crappy prospects at this point.
     
  7. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

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    And you are being a huge homer.

    Nieve and Burke are not "crappy prospects". Toronto is not "a guy or two away from major success." You are still in the AL East, with Boston and New York. I doubt you sniff the postseason for the foreseable future.

    This trade works for both teams, but I find it more likely that the Astros address their needs for a major bat through the free agent addition of Carlos Lee.
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    So you stand pat, keeping your delusions of playoffs alive, and then end up losing Wells for nothing next summer... good plan.

    Maybe if the Blue Jays hadn't wasted $55 million on that poor-man's (or rich-man's) Kerry Wood (AJ Burnett), they'd have more payroll flexibility.
     
  9. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Your Tweety Bird dance just cost us a run

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    wow, i'd love that deal.. our younger, unproven pitching is what we can spare (if anything). Would suck to lose Burke.. but if we got Wells, shoot...I'd take a season of Bruntlett at 2nd until we found someone to take his place.

    Where would that leave Pence? I guess he could still be the future 3rd OF with Scott and Wells
     
  10. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

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    Link?

    Or if you don't have one, do you know why they like him?
     
  11. Xenon

    Xenon Contributing Member

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    It would be tough giving up good young players for possibly a 1 year rental in Wells, but I'd do that trade. I'm very much in favor of doing whatever we can to rid ourselves of weak hitters like Ausmus, Everett and Taveras if the defense doesn't take much of a hit. In this case the defense will actually be improved.
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Billy Beane desperatly wanted Chris Burke in the 2001 draft.

    In Moneyball, its said he throws a chair through the wall in response to his scouts/front office drafting the high-priced Jeremy Bonderman in the first round. In reality, Beane has said that he reacted that way not because of the Bonderman selection, but because the Astros picked Burke so early.

    Burke projects to be a guy who can see a fair share of pitches to get on base, hit for a high average with some extra-base power, and is athletic enough to play multiple positions. Beane was still trying to acquire him from the Astros as of last year (he probably would have liked to have him especially after Ellis got hurt in the playoffs).

    I'm not sure if it translated to JP liking him too (another Sabermetritian), but out of our current roster players, he does have the most value/upside.
     
  13. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    i think it certainly favors us, as it should with wells about to walk, but it's not highway robbery. toronto is simply not going to get equal value for him and nieve and burke are no scrubs.
     
  14. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    This would be a great move for the astros.
     
  15. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    Getting Wells would be a colossal pick-up for the Stros. Not only because of the overall talent he possesses, but his realatively cheap contract for the upcoming season allows for some payroll flexability. Add in that we would have a legitimate opportunity lock up Vernon long term making such a deal really special.

    Such a deal may also allow Willy T to be moved in a deal to Florida for Dontrelle Willis. ;)
     
  16. hatemavs4life

    hatemavs4life Member

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    No matter what, deals are going to cost us in some way shape or form. If you want to be honest on this subject, only Berkman, Biggio, Oswalt, (maybe AE, unless you can spring for Tejada (doubtful, though)), Probably Luke Scott, he showed alot of promise and potential. Like to keep Lamby too. His versatility in matchups helps us alot. These are your only real untouchables.

    Burke, Willy T, Ensberg, Nieve, Astacio, Lidge are all dangling trade bait. I like Burke's versatility, his "bulldog" attitude but if the right deal comes along like Vernon Wells we would be stupid not to do it. Willy T has great potential, great speed, great at defense in the outfield but in all honesty, is a lousy leadoff hitter. He is not patient and is now mostly one-dimensional in his hitting, bunt for hits but that only worked in 2005. This is the pros and they'll take that option away and force him to do something else.+
     
  17. yaopao

    yaopao Contributing Member

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    A no-brainer for the Astros if there ever was one.

    Burke, while consistent, wouldn't give us more than .290-.300, 10 HR, 60-70 RBI. It's useful, but nothing that would leave a gaping hole on the roster.

    I also don't envision Nieve being more than a 3 or 4 starter, at least anytime soon and for a team that has plans to contend like the Astros.
     
  18. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Contributing Member

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    The more the merrier...It looks like we have some options...That's a good thing as I know the Stros' will win the WS this coming season...
     
  19. fadeaway

    fadeaway Contributing Member

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    LOL. You guys are hilarious. Sure, the deal is completely fair. Also, while you're at it, why not request Halladay too? Maybe they'd even be willing to arrange a joint-league trade with the NBA to send Bosh to the Rockets for Luther Head and Ryan Bowen. :rolleyes:

    Also, the puzzling thing is that you guys don't seem to realize that the Blue Jays are a better team than the Astros. Look it up.

    The plan is not to stand pat. Last I heard, the plan in Toronto is to increase payroll by $5 million or so to bring in a couple more players.

    If the Jays fall out of playoff contention next year, then and only then will they think about trading Wells for less than market value. Until that happens, you'll have to suppress your wet dream trade ideas for now. LOL.


    In the AL East, no doubt it's a tough road for them, but the Yankees are old and overrated and Boston is on a downward spiral, so I can easily see it happening. Hell, they already had a better record than Boston this past year, and that was with their three best starters all missing significant periods of time due to injury.

    In fact, assuming there are no weird spring training injuries going into next season, I'd be willing to make a sig bet that the Blue Jays once again finish with a better overall record than the Astros. Any takers for that?

    Also, I wouldn't call myself a Jays homer just yet. I just happened to live in Toronto this past summer and know a lot about the team. I'm still making the reluctant transition from lifetime Expos fan. :(
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    And just think how much better they'd be if they didn't throw away $55 million dollars on a guy who can't carry Oswalt's jock strap.

    Toronto needs to have a dominant (and fully healthy) season from Halladay, as well as an actual GOOD season from AJ Burnett (hasn't happened yet) to be considered a threat to win the AL East.

    Also, if the Blue Jays were so focused on the prize, why don't they sign Wells? The Astros were able to sign Berkman.

    As far as organizations go, the Blue Jays aren't at the same level as the Astros... especially if Houston reloads (as expected) this off-season.
     

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