US media decide to ignor this protest in LA?

This is bull****. This has everything to do about China and nothing to do about media objectivity. If this wasn't about China, you wouldn't care at all.

You and yours are just way oversensitive. Stop crying.

 

You have like this serious US penis envy. It's so absurd. Cheap junk for cheap people? What is the standard of living of Chinese vs Americans? China has about a billion more people than the US yet the US still has a higher GDP so seriously, get real. And believe it or not, some of us actually refuse to shop at places like Wal-Mart because we support worker's rights and don't want foreign people exploited, including the Chinese, so we can buy cheap junk.

BTW, in keeping with your policy of criticizing other countries you must say 5 nice things about America before you can criticize it or else you're obviously a hater and can't be taken seriously. Thanks.

 

have you said anything nice about china? 5 nice things? wait, you criticized china before you said anything nice. and you've never lived in china before.

 

I have never said anything nice about Kim Jong Il or North Korea. Does that mean I am racist against Koreans?

 

oh speak the truth .

 

The exchange between me and ubermaton was not about which country is better. That's a whole 'nother topic, judoka. My hyperbolic response that you quoted aims to let him taste a dose of his own medicine.

To apply his dorky crap, you are not supposed to be capable of steering clear of any anti-PRC bias since you were indoctrinated in Cold War mentality in your early childhood.

Likewise, a discussion on family/marriage/religion directed at a member of Mormon faith ought to automatically veer to multi-wifey "joke" because of the polygamist history some 100 years ago.

Yeah, I can also attribute your lack of reading comprehension to the suckiness of education system in the U.S. -- UC Berkeley be damned.

How do you feel about this little indoctrination game?

You see, I am not here to be a bigger man or to turn my other cheek like Jesus Christ.

Respect is mutual. So are distrust and hostility.

 

Wow, you sure showed us.

 

If we had mass political education campaigns and threw anybody in jail who criticized the government you might have something there. If you don't see a tangible difference in the nature of freedom of discussion between the US in the last 50 years and China in the last 50 years, I don't know what you see. It is not hostility. It is acceptance of different realities, bigguangdonggg. You don't seem to understand that. If you want to make some point about the quality of our science and math education, that would be valid. But the US doesn't have the same political indoctrination system of China, so there is no point to be made there.

 

It's not that the media here doesnt cover the protest. It's just that the people here dont give a s**t what the commie controlled American Chinese have to say, as how most Americans precevie.

I have been into a couple of these protests myself before. Some of the protesters are genuine , but I cant denny there were some level of involvement of the Chinese consulates, because most pro mainland China Chinese organization here are connected to the Chinese consulates one way or another.

Being a conspriacy theorist and having lived in LA for a number of years, just right around Hollywood, the Chinese general consulate is about 5 exits away on the 101 from the CNN building, so there goes your imagination.

And there are people protesting outside the LA Chinese embassy everyday, and no one seems to care either. I know that because I used to live just across the street.

So no big deal. We are all biased. No one is going to convince somebody. It takes a war to settle everything. Sadly.

 

Wnes previously told me I must say something nice about China before I could criticize it or I would be branded a hater. We don't have to live in China to know which way the wind blows.

It's pretty damn scary that we Americans b**** and complain about our goverment all the time as we live in a free society but Chinese seem to have a blind trust and support for a government that still holds thought criminals and has state run media. Hell, the Chinese government is pissing its pants that it'll "lose face" over what "protest" might accidentally get on air during the Olympics. That's crazy man, it's 2008.

 

You're using a biased sample.

Think about it.

 

Hey, sorry for the repost.

Another good comment that people from both sides would like to read.

From http://www.jean-luc-melenchon.fr/?p=585
comment #2470

Dear Mr. Melenchon,

First I would like to express my admiration of your integrity by expressing a different view of approaching China in the interview with TF2. You are really different from the usual politicians who normally cater to the majority views without thinking of the justifiability.

Maybe some information about my background is necessary. I am a Chinese citizen born in a humble farmer family in the year of 1979, the year just after the adoption of Reform and Openness policy by Chinese government. I undertook the college education in China and PhD education in Singapore. And now I am a visiting scholar in a top US business school and about to join a university in Australia as a junior professor. I am quite representative of a generation of Chinese youths witnessing the dramatic changes in China in both economy and politics. Lots of westerners, including French people, worry about the autocracy and the lack of human rights in China and want to ‘Free China’. And as a person who experienced the regime and whose family (a humble and not privileged one) is still under that regime, I think that I have a better understanding of what average Chinese think of their situation and their future.

China is in any way not as democratic and as free as all developed countries are. The citizens still don’t enjoy the rights to express our views completely freely and to elect the government. There is no single Chinese not valuing this kind of rights. And nor do we want to stay in this regime forever. But before criticizing China and imposing any good will on Chinese, it is really necessary to take some efforts to learn the history and the current status of China. China had been deprived of the right to develop for about 100 years before 1949 because of the invasion of then western and eastern emperors including France favoring colonization. As such, Chinese were really hatred of the lack of independence, social inequality and poverty. That was exactly the reason why China Communist Party could win the civil war and take over the regime though it started from almost nothing in 1920s. Socialist and the advocated social equality were so appealing and irresistible to the long-suffered Chinese people. However, the history demonstrated that communist, which is ignorant of the nature of individuals as human beings, is really a Utopia and doomed to fail. And especially, the institutional and political system in all communist countries, which was centralized and one-party autocratic, led to disastrous outcome for people in the communist regime such as what Chinese experienced in Great Leap in 1950s and Cultural Revolution in 1960s. Consequently, Chinese, including the Chinese communist government, started to seek change. The reform took place first in the economy system and then expanded gradually to the political system which is an important agenda of Chinese government now. As you and people over the world could see, Chinese economy has been improved dramatically during the past 30 years. The amazing economic development in China is one of the biggest contributions made by Chinese to the improvement of living status of the whole human beings. Just think of the more than quintupled improvement in living status for 1.3 billion people within 30 years.

What accompanies the improvement in economic status is the increased demand of social and political rights by average Chinese citizens. Maybe China is still an autocratic country without sufficient human rights in the eyes of most citizens of western countries. But what I have seen so far is the significant improvement in personal freedom. We are enjoying the precedentless personal freedom in the history of China: we can criticize the government about the wrong-doings and we can express our concerns on the news media. The fact that Chinese government is not elected directly by all Chinese citizens (but it is still elected by the representatives of Chinese people though westerners may disagree about their representativeness.) does not necessarily mean that it does not act responsibly for Chinese people. Our concerns and opinions are having more and more significant impact on the government’s policies and decisions. Not to exaggerate, Chinese government is acting much more responsibly and democratically to Chinese people than some governments elected by their citizens in some poor countries which lack the conditions of realizing democracy such as educated and independently judging citizens. I won’t deny that all the above rights carrying a borderline – you cannot aim at overturning the current regime. It is really imperfect, but we don’t expect and intend to overturn it immediately overnight. China is still a developing country and relatively poor. We have many more concerns rather than only the political rights. The right of surviving and living better is the most important human right. Having the full democracy and enjoying the totally free political rights may be the benefit of overturning current regime, but the cost of overturning the current regime quickly is the chaos and the turmoil of the whole country. The process of economic development will be interrupted and it is the average Chinese citizens suffering most. That is the reason that we Chinese citizens are dissatisfied with the current regime but we object to any strategic plan designed by the western political leaders to impose the western freedom on China. We are on the right process and straddling ahead steadily. Any person without prejudice and bias can see the improvement in all fields in China including personal and civil freedom if he/she really wants to understand China.

We hate the hypocritical propaganda to ‘Free China’ such as the way of US to free Iraq and Afghanistan which put the people there in a tragedy. We hate the way of CIA colluding with Dalai Lama and his followers to so-called ‘Free Tibet’ but essentially to separate China and restore the religiously leading regime in Tibet. And that is the reason why those exiled Chinese pro-democracy fighters, who were once regarded as heroes in China during 1989 pro-democracy protest in Beijing, are not discarded and disdained by the majority of Chinese people, because they ignore the real opinions of majority Chinese people and act as an instrument of those ill-intent anti-China organizations which fund their lives and activities.

After expressing my perception of the status and the future of China and its people from the point of view of an average Chinese citizen, it is necessary to talk about the recent chaos around the Tibet riots and the 2008 Beijing Olympics. About the Tibet riots, if people don’t think Chinese government as devils and Chinese people as brain-washed idiots, they can see the truth easily because there are lots of evidences available in the internet now. If they want to leave behind the recent Tibet riots and care about the human right issues in Tibet, please read the history book and academic research about Tibet rather than only the ideologically biased media reports and the propaganda. They will find out that the truth is so differently than what they learnt from those major western media. I won’t deny that Chinese government did lots of wrong things in Tibet during the ideologically crazy periods such as Cultural Revolution and Tibetans suffered a lot from such wrong policies. But it was the case across the whole country then. And since 1980s, Chinese government has done lots of make-up to improve the life of Tibetans and to restore the culture and religion in Tibet. From whatever criteria, Tibetans are living a much better life and enjoying much more freedoms compared with they were under the regime of Dalai Lama. If they want to argue that there are still lots of human right issues in Tibet, I totally agree, just as I agree that there are lots of human right issues in other parts of China. But actually Tibetans enjoy lots of privileges which are unavailable to the majority ethnic Han people and even other ethnic minorities. One illusion about the recent Tibet riots is that Tibetans are unsatisfied with their status and stand out to protest. Please respect the truth. The violent protests and riots are led and participated by Lamas (monks) and very few mobs rather than the average Tibetans. Most Tibetans are satisfied with the improvement in their life brought by the abolishment of slavery system under Dalai Lama’s regime and the affirmative action policies endorsed by the central government to Tibetans. Some lamas (monks) are unsatisfied with the government because they would have more privileges under Dalai’s regime (actually they were slave maters before 1951) and their spiritual leader Dalai Lama (who actually is a super politician) is treated as an anti-China traitor by Chinese government. Except for worshipping Dalai Lama, they have the absolute freedom to pursue their religious beliefs. There are no other religious servants around the world who are so well treated and funded by the government as lamas in Tibet are. If some western people don’t believe this, please pay a visit to Tibet personally or watch the documentaries by the western tourists who visited Tibet and have no intention to purposely bias the audiences. And how to improve the human right in Tibet is the same issue as how to improve the human right in other parts of China. We have improved and are still on the right way of improving the human right for every Chinese across the whole country including Tibet. Here is an advice for some western people. Don’t try to impose their will and copy their model to other countries just because other countries look not that perfect as their own countries. That is another form of colonization. In terms of the domestic political system and institutions, US are viewed as the best among the world. Does it mean that every other country including France, UK, and Germany should discard their own systems and just copy the US one? Isn’t it ridiculous?

Let me finally say something about the sino-French relationship among the recent chaos among Tibet riots and Olympics game. Chinese are peaceful and proud people and don’t like to be intervened by the super-powers. And one old Chinese proverb says that ‘Don’t impose what you dislike on others’. Thus we respect other countries’ independence and dignity. We view France and its people as one of our best friends in western world because you also have such a tradition. I still remember that France was one of the countries mostly actively objecting the invasion of Iraq by US. And the economic and cultural linkages between France and China have strengthened and are strengthening over time. However, this friendship is shaded by the recent ‘Free Tibet’ movement and the harsh comments about China by the politicians, leading by your president, Mr. Sarkozy. Especially, the violent protest and the humiliating action by the Paris municipality during the Olympic Torch relay in Paris strongly hurt the feeling and dignity of all Chinese people. The following comment by a French media that ‘the extinguishing of Olympics torch in Paris is a slash on China’s face’ is really shameless and irresponsible. I cannot imagine that a media in a democratic country can be such a rascal and devil.

As a well-educated person, I understand that there are only very few French people intending to humiliate China and its people. And most French people just care about the human rights of Tibetan Chinese and other Chinese and want to exert the pressure on Chinese government to take actions. But as I pointed out previously, lots of French people know little about China. They have no idea of the history and the status of China. They just know that China is not as democratic as France and want China to be as democratic as French. But they are totally ignorant about the complex situation of China and they never think of what is the best way for us Chinese to achieve our own freedom and democracy. As I pointed out, it is very ironic that every country should follow the exact western system and become as democratic as the western world overnight. Looking at the humane tragedies and military turmoil around the world, almost in every case you can see the phantom of western powers imposing their own will and exerting their economic and military influences to mold those alien countries to fit the western system. As a person with deep understanding of the cultural differences between China and French, I can understand that the unfriendly actions and na?ve way of treating China and its people by the some French people are based on good will. But for the majority of Chinese, especially those strongly believe that French are Chinese’s trustful friends, as the Chinese media always try to convey, they feel hurt and humiliated. They cannot understand that why so many French people could be so ignorant but arrogant, why they tell Chinese to follow their wills but actually know almost nothing about us, and how they can be so natively biased by the propaganda of some media and politicians. So they express their anger on the internet, over the Carrefour, over LV. Maybe some French friends would say that it is due to the propaganda by the Chinese government. I have to say that it is really a stupid and soundless speculation. Not like lots of western media selectively seeking and reporting negative news about China, the Chinese media controlled by the government covey mostly positive news about the western world, and about the improvement in the economic and cultural linkage with the western countries. And even amid current outbreak of anger over French government by millions of Chinese people, Chinese government-controlled media try to persuade those angry people that the majority of French people are friendly to Chinese people, and there also millions of Chinese disagree with the view that we should condemn French people for the violent and humiliating actions in Paris. There are people going to Carrefour to protest the prejudice and bias against China, but there are also people going there to convey positive image of French and persuade protesting people to leave. You can see this is China: we have the right to protest; and we have different views among our people and have rights to express them.

I really understand lots of Chinese people’s feeling of humiliation and anger toward lots of western people who blindly condemn China without knowledge about and respect toward China and its people. What make things worse are the further distortions by some western media about the anti-bias protests by oversee and domestic Chinese. These media are just reluctant to acknowledge their initial faults and bias. They view every Chinese supporting the government as brainwashed communist. I have to remind them that the majority of oversee Chinese participating in the anti-bias and pro-China protests are well-educated under the top western universities, with independent judgment, and very critical about the policies of Chinese government. And even more strikingly, among the participants of a series of recent protests you can find those who strongly disagree with Chinese government and participated in the 1989 pro-democracy protest in Beijing. So the further distortion and humiliation by some devil media, politicians and ignorant people will further invoke the anger of Chinese and deepen the misunderstandings between Chinese people and French people.

About this summer’s Olympics game, lots of western people interpret it as Chinese government aiming to show off its economic achievements. It is at most superficial if not wrong totally. Most Chinese people support the hosting of 2008 Olympics because we want to communicate with the rest of the world, want others to understand what has been going on in China during the past 30 years, and want to tell the rest of the world that we are straddling on the right way to improve our country in every fields including political system. Isn’t 2008 Olympics Game a good chance to communicate with Chinese people and encourage China to further its reform and openness even if the westerns want to bring good changes to China? Invoking antagonism among Chinese people and the western people by blindly condemning and humiliating China and its people will only cut the communication between us and make Chinese disgusted of any propaganda of freedom, equality and democracy claimed by the western people. We will pursue our own real freedom, equality and democracy because we know that we care much much more about our own benefits and rights than westerns do.

To be frank, I am really disappointed about the French politicians because some of them behave so irresponsibly and myopically, such as the mayor of Paris who posts the flag symbolizing the independence of Tibet and the tampered Olympics flag as five handcuffs on the municipal hall. Fortunately, I still see a politician of integrity as you being brave enough not to cater to and manipulate the bias and prejudice among some ignorant electorates. As I mentioned above, I strongly believe the passion for freedom, equality and democracy of the French people and I believe that it is this passion making them express their concerns about the imperfectness of China. However, I strongly hope that French people can express their good will appropriately and make more effort to understand the history and the status of our country and our people before they want to help us.

Yours sincerely,

Jianfeng Shen
A oversee Chinese valuing the friendship between Chinese and French

 

Nonsense! This board encapsulates all world opinion.

 

I know many chinese people and they are all very patriotic right now.
I think the reason is because they see their country rising and we see ours possibly falling. It seems to matter less the position of the country but the direction, for the moral of the people.

 

I remember when my 6th grade teacher made us watch Rocky IV every day for a month. Ever since then I hated the USSR. Bahaha...

 

I'm truly sorry you feel that way.

 

This sounds very similar to the war supporters who keep on saying that no good news gets reported out of Iraq when its not that hard to find stories of the US soldiers helping out Iraqis. Not every news story is going to get the same amount of coverage and like it or not a story of someone getting blown up is going to get more coverage than one of a soldier adopting an Iraqi kid. The same way with on a day where there are several other more pressing stories, runup to PA primary, FLDS church, Earth Day you can't expect a peaceful and relatively small (yes 1,500 people isn't a huge protest) over a loudmouth talking head to get a lot of coverage.

The fact still remains that it was reported. It wasn't front page news on the NYT but seriously do you think a story like that deserves to be front page news on the NYT?

If there was a protest of 1,500 Czechs outside CNN because Cafferty called the Czech republic a junk country and Vaclav Havel a junk president would you think that deserved to headline the national news?

Because I am not a citizen of the PRC and even if I was my identity isn't bound up by the country. People criticize the US all the time, heck I criticize the US all the time. I've been in situations overseas where people were debating whether the US is as evil or more evil than Nazi Germany. Do I take that as an assault on all Americans? NO,there is a difference between the government and the people.

The PRC isn't all Chinese. It happens to be the government that is located where the Chinese homeland is but it doesn't speak for Chinese in Taiwan, Singapore, or anywhere else. There are many in Hong Kong and even in the PRC proper that will say that the PRC doesn't speak for them either. My opinion Cafferty's attack was over the top, offensive and unfair towards the PRC but I don't take it as an attack on me as Chinese.

 

I'm sorry too, but not surprised. Did you read about the Chinese Embassy busing in thousands of Chinese demonstrators for the "spontaneous" demonstration in Canberra? This entire "Torch Controversy" is being played like a fiddle by the Chinese oligarchy. So are the Chinese people through the government controlled Chinese media. Bummer. My opinion, of course.



Impeach Bush.