US expected to shelve Euro missile defense plan

I want it to be known that I hate when Obama makes that face, and he does it in every speech. It's as annoying to me as the Bush face.

 

Good move all around, now we can agree on Iran

 

the lemon face? explain.

 

bitter beer face.

 

I can see that.

 

All kidding about the Czech Republic and Poland aside, I'll be looking with interest at just what is planned for installation in those countries by 2015. Both countries really stuck their necks out agreeing to allow placement of the previous systems in their respective countries. They saw it as a positive on several levels, as well as the obvious negative of pissing off the ruler of the former Soviet Union (and occupier), Russia. It was seen as binding both countries closer to the West and further away from Russia, deeply increasing military ties, along with increased military aid and a major economic benefit, with hundreds of millions being spent, jobs created, and major bases, long term, with all those attendant goodies.

It's not as simple as it looks at first glance to some people.

 

I heard the deputy Czech deputy Prime Minister and a deputy Polish security minister on Newshour on the BBC today. Both of them said they expected it to happen, they were disapointed and concerned, but essentially if Obama follows through on the promises that he made to them on the phone yesterday, they will be OK with the outcome. And both of them made clear that the most important thing for them was maintaining a tight relationship on defense issues with the USA.

It sounds to me like it won't be the end of the world for our relationship with Poland and the Czech Republic.

If you would like to listen to the interview, click here, in the new window click on "listen" and in the player that pops open, fast-foward to about 4:15.

 

ain't that you?

 

Consider the long term goal, however. Russia is no longer the Soviet Union and the goal since Reagan’s time has been to tear down the walls, not build them up. There certainly are times when a strong defensive military position is important, but is that where the west is at with Russia now, or are we moving in the other direction?

 

Deckard, the Berlin Wall fell; it is a new world out there.

 

I don't have a problem with not continuing Bush's grandiose plans, which have never really been proven to work, which is the point of having the system. I wonder, however, how Moscow will receive the new system, as improved relations with Russia are one of the motivations behind this. A couple of important treaties are about to expire and/or come under review. START, the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and Russia's help in getting Iran to stop its development of atomics, along with other issues, are hoped to be helped with this move. This quote from The Guardian has me wondering just where a radar system near Iran is going to be placed and how Moscow will react to that. Here it is:

"The new plan would see a fixed radar system in the Caucasus aimed at Iran, rather than an omni-directional one in the Czech Republic, according to a Pentagon general."

OK, here's a map of the Caucasus:



So where do you put this radar system? In Georgia? The country recently invaded by Russia and still partially occupied by that country? How does Moscow react to that? Where else could you put it in the area? There are lots of questions remaining that need answering.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/17/missile-defence-shield-poland-obama

 

glynch, and anyone else out there, could you actually read my posts instead of hitting yourself in the face with those jerking knees you have?

 

I believe he may mean the late 80's/early 90's "Gas Face"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CAUzdoFEao


(can't embed, but this is ****ing awesome for you old skoolers....there was a poorly received SNL skit about this once IIRC)

 

Given their respective histories, Poland doesn't have a problem pissing off Russia.

 

Exactly.. the only change is symbolic. Yet, Russia has to respond in kind to the American "gesture", almost like getting something for nothing... and its not the first time Putin has been hustled this year. This administration is proving to be particularly adept at using soft power in foreign policy.

 

Uh you do know that George Washington in his farewell addressed warned against getting entangled in foreign affairs and alliances. Washington would probably be happy that we weren't building missile defense shields in other countries.

 

I heard on NPR today that public opinion in those countries though has been positive and that generally most of the population was against the missile shield.

I like this move but suspect there is much more behind this and will be curious to see if the talk of bringing it back in another form will happen or if its just posturing.

As far as the argument that we are caving in to Russia consider that this system was never touted as being able to stop Russian missiles. In the end this system was a waste of money that annoyed other countries with little return.

 

eastern Turkey is the obvious place, but not sure if the Turks would be that keen to be seen helping the west contra Iran, since they'd be much more vulnerable to a strike.

there were several points to placing the system in Poland/Czech Republic- to, as Deckard notes, to bind those countries closer to the west, economically and militarily, to place the system in a more politically stable country than cold be found nearer Iran, and lastly to place the system in an area that could not be directly threatened by Iran.

there's only one rationale for moving it, and that's to placate Russia. no matter how Obama spins it, that's not good enough.