Why is that? There are certain reason why guys fall down in the draft and then there are no reasons, but thats not to say guys in the 2nd rd can't be very,very good players. One of th hottest fa in the league right now is Arenas who was a 2nd rd pick. Another 2nd rd pick,Redd made ray allen expendable. Don't knock a guy because he slipped through the cracks. Yes there are a few gems here and there, but 70-90% of them are crap. I highly doubt that a big man that has real potential to be a good starter wouldn't be nabbed up by some of the teams that went before us that are desperate for that kind of help. I just asked a question,simple one and you made it seem like Eddie was the be all end all. Eddie does have natural rebounding and shot blocking skills, but offensively , his footwork is bad and never seems to lay it on the line. Some players have the play hard because they are limited and some play hard because thats all they know. Eddie doesn't do either. I never said Eddie was the end all be all. He is not the prototypical pf yet for the rox. You could have put any big man for the rox on there and I would have said the same thing. I don't expect him to be better than Mo, Cato, Griff, Ming, and a plethora of other big men on other teams. Many people on this board expect great things from Eddie, but all I see is Donyell Marshall. All things being considered, both players are very raw , but who do you think has the more upside and would be willing to sell out to get there? In contrast, many on this board expect great things from Malik, when he probably wont even make the team. And I think Griff has more upside. I don't really know who would sell out more to get to their potential, but I would assume it would be Malik, based on a few of his interviews and what he would have to gain. That doesn't mean too much though, as a lot of people are all talk.
Honestly, I haven't been keeping much tabs on him other than reports of the games. I knew how raw he was talent-wise from the articles I read, then I saw how not-ready he was physically(too skinny). Unless he shows versatility and toughness like a Keon or KG( ), I think I'll just wait til next year to see how he progresses.
Donyell Marshall and Joe Smith have stuck around the league for many years. Even if that's the only level Griffin reaches, I think it's high than Badiane. Why? Because Griffin has translatable skills to develop in such a manner. Griffin has a more refined offensive game, with a much greater shooting range. It's much easier to work with someone who can shoot the ball in terms of improving their shot than it is to work with someone who can't shoot the ball (i.e. from long range) in terms of them acquiring such an ability. It's his offensive skills that, I feel, give him the edge over Badiane. Perhaps this is a bad argument, and it reminds me of the baseball prospects debate between stats and tools. However, no concrete evidence exists for stats over tools in the NBA - at least not to the extent as in baseball - and even in that case, Badiane's performance isn't as impressive as Griffin's (even if his, in NBA terms, has not been impressive).
Badiane 44th pick in the draft. Dennis Rodman 27th pick) was almost 20 years ago. BTW the 27th pick would have been a 1st round pick this year. Antonio Davis (45th pick) was 13 years ago but I'll give you that one Ben Wallace was never drafted but signed as a free agent in 96 Othella Harrington (30th pick) has been little more than a journeyman and is not in the same class as Rodman, Davis or Wallace. If Badiane turns into Harrington then I think he will be a nice little addition off of the bench but certainly nothing to get excited about. So for the last 20 years all we can come up with is three (Rodman, Davis and Wallace) legitimate difference makers that were not drafted in the 1st round and Rodman was picked with the 27th pick which would be a 1st rounder now. I think that speaks volumes about what a long shot it is to get a true quality big man outside of the 1st round. Don't misunderstand me, I hope Badiane turns into all everyone seems to think he will but the fact is that it is a very big long shot. True big men that are difference makers are extremely rare outside of the first round.
Guys you want another big man undrafted that is over 6'10 and above off of the top of my head is Brad Miller with Indiana. I give more if you guys would like.
wow He got us on the Brad Miller anomaly! hehe not a starter until age 25. Now you want to name a 6'11 or taller better than Griffin? keep going. Come on...you can do it!! You can dispell this myth of ours that most all 6'11+ big men who amount to anything are taken in the 1st round, and yet, there are still a huge amount taken in the 2nd, despite your amazing Brad Miller anomaly.
Brad Miller is a good one but that still only makes 4 in 20 years. That still doesn't give me a lot of confidence that Badiane will turn into a diference maker. There is a reason that he was not picked until the 44th pick. I truley hope the scouts over looked something the way they did with Rodman, Wallace, Davis and Miller.
HP, you clearly did not see the first game. The 20 foot jumper Ba had came from him setting a screen, I think, and when he received the ball the jump shot went up immediately. The guy is already better than Cato, offensively. Hand down. In the overall scheme of thing I would not say the comparisons to Amare are unwarranted. This guy's body fat % is in Amare's class in my opinion. His jump shot is better than Amare. Amare, of course, has played more than him. I would put it this way; if Ba was drafted by the Suns last year, he would not be spending a year in Europe. Having said all of that, I see both him and EG delivering with EG being ahead. I am expecting big things from EG this year. Ba will be a bruiser which EG will not be. I like both players and see EG being a better scorer. EG is going to be the 5th or 6th option, offensively on this team. That is not his fault, he just happens to be on a very talented team. However as a 6th option, I feel good. In my opinion he could easily average 15 pts a game next year, given the opportunity. Regarding Ba being picked so low, I think it can be explained. With the talent pool now with the influx of high schoolers and Europeans, and his limited exposure to the USA, I can see how he fell. If the draft was held next week I am pretty sure he would not be picked #44.
So, you're saying his jumper is better than Eddie's?? Don't forget, this is not a Cato vs Badiane's offense thread. This is Griffin vs Badiane. A Cato vs Badiane thread, I would be speaking a lot differently. Do you guys who think we're bashing Badiane or calling him a bust have any concept of the difference between comparing Badiane to Cato versus Hakeem, Amare, or Griffin? I saw the game. I saw the shot. I saw him get shoved around. I saw a slow jumper. I saw very strippable moves with the ball. I saw the video of a round of PnR workouts with the new asst coaches. Did you see that? That looks like Cato's jumper to me. What I didn't see is Cato guarding Badiane, or vice versa. So there is no "hands down," not yet. You're always so excitable about potential, aren't you. I guess after one 18' jumper, you'll be yelling at the new coach if he sends him back to Germany....'eh. is that it?
Well said. That's what I've been trying to say for the last year. But I think you got one part below "reversed." "I said that the role players and lesser stars of the league are generally the ones with talent, but without the hard work to back it up." Role players and lesser stars of the league are the ones that *lack* talent, but with hard-work are able to back it up. The elite players are the ones that don't need to *work* hard, but are able to *get by* by just riding their natural talent. It's when you mix * both hard work and talent* you get super stars at the full potential. Shaq, Kobe, J. O'Neil, Duncan, etc... Coleman, was lazy. But he was able to *hang* around in the league without putting in *hard* work, because he was relying on his natural *talent* and skills. He was an underachiever. He could have been better with *hard work* and dedication.
The "glimpses" are his ablity to perform in college as an 18 year old. He shows flashes of this ability on the court in the NBA. His body type, his leaping ablity, his smooth fluid motion in the post. He has some refinement. He's NOT ucoordinated. All this, and now he's only 20. He has the tools to work with, but I'm not sure that Griff has the dedication.
If Badiane doesn't get caught up in the streets....then he should have plenty of room for improvement!! I like both. I think both are great players for the Rockets. I love the Rockets! I agree. Eddie could have been great..but I don't think he will become a star or anything. He could be a pretty good role player though. He must have had the most traveling violations for a power forward last year. And he didn't have that many blocks in the 2nd half of the season. I still like him. I haven't seen Badiane play....but both can still improve! Eddie needs consistency and a better attitude and a rehab program! Badiane is athletic...he and Griffin need to get stronger. And maybe he can work on his shot even more along with Eddie. Maybe they can become good friends and have 1on1 battles during practice or something... Eddie's been given so many chances to play!!! And he still is about the same...but he's only like 20 or 21. Badiane is only 19! Which one has more upside? I think Badiane. Eddie has the talent..he just needs to be more aggressive and use his brain more often! Maybe the new coach will help him and define his role on this team.
Nobody really knows who has more upside and that's saying a lot. When a 44th pick is compared to a 7th and alleged No.1 pick material, yet the phrase "ridiculous comparison" is not around, you know how far that 7th pick has slipped.
Griffin will benifit from the new system. The guy is 21 years old, he's still very young. Anytime someone says he's a bust it's ridiculous. The thought of comparing which of the 2 will be better is laughfable.
Although second round big men success stories are far and between, one characteristic that sticks out from the 2nd round quality big men like Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Antonio Davis is that they are all very hard workers on the court. It's their energy that pushes them to the top. If Malick is indeed a high energy, hard working player, which by all accounts seems to be, there's no guarentee that he won't be the next Antonio Davis.
All I said was who had the most upside. If for some reason you think Eddie has it, so be it because many think he's a mix between Garnett and Wallace, but i beg to differ. Just purely on athletic ability , whom do you think not only has the biggest potential? I don't really want to hear about Eddie and his sweet stroke because a big man should never shoot 40% from the feel. I wouldn't care if Eddie would just explode and dunk the ball off of passes, but he doesn't because he has terrible foot work. Right now, we are still curios about Malick, but what i see is the way big men are normally developed. Most start out as finshers inside no matter how narrow or small they are. I've never seen a big guy start off being perimeter, then try to learn to go inside. Even KG as a rookie used to try to bang and score inside before moving outside. The next progression is normally adding maybe a 1 or 2 dribble drive to the hole or a 15 ft jump shot. Once again we haven't seen this because he can't dribble and his footwork is very very poor. I'm reallt pulling for Eddie this season with JVG. I think with JVG , he will dive to the hole more and raise his fg% as well. He has natural rebounding and shot blocking ability, but offensively, his footwork are so bad that he has to think before he even attempts a layup. I watched game film last yr when Eddie cut to the hole, got the ball, took a dribble and instead of dunking the ball, took a dribble out and shot a 5ft jumper like he was at the ft line. I may be in the minority, but I'm really expecting Eddie to just be a solid player, nothing special. Maybe after this season posters can come on this board and bash me about my predictions, but just as rare as it for a big guy to fall to the 2nd rd, how many reall good players does the nba turn out after 1 yr of college? Its only 2 players, who had 1 yr of college who has really amounted to anything,Marbury and SAR. Thomas,White,Hughes,Wingfield and guys like that seem to have probelms and are traded and wind up being evg guys. People are still talking about Tim Thomas potential even after they traded Robinson,gave him max money and was beat out by Toni Kukoc. Larry Hughes has played on like 5 teams and Rodney white was traded during his rookie season. Its still early, regardless of draft position, who do you think has the biggest upside.
True. Very True. Very well said Panda. I can only feel sorry for Eddy. Eddy biggest problem is his work ethic. For this reason (if there is no major improvement in that department) Eddy may never ever reach his full potential (per # 7 pick expectation).
Come on, are you serious? Eddie Griffin is better than Badiane and will ultimately be better than Badiane. Badiane was shreaded by a 19 yr old Chris Bosh. Griffin dominated in the summer league last year. Griffin's problem is in his head, not his body
i can't really say because the most i have seen of badiane is the picture that was on the front page. i do know he's so far not dominating like griffin was last year at the summer leagues. he might be on par with griff's rookie performance though? can't recall. i still have confidence in eddie panning out into a nice player. despite a dissapointing season he definitely had moments. heck atleast it was better than kwame. i give him the benefit of the doubt because the dude couldn't have possibly known what his role in the offense was when i don't even think rudy did. ii'd love to see him again with van gundy in control.
I PICK BADIANE SINCE GRIFFIN IS A DISSAPOINTMENT. BADIANE ISN'T THAT MUCH OF A DISAPOINTMENT...HE'S PICKED 44TH AND HE SEEMS TO BE A PRETTY GOOD ATHLETE AND HUSTLES AND SEEMS TO DO A LOT OF DIRTY WORK LIKE PJ BROWN; GRIFFIN WAS PICKED SO HIGH AND LOOK AT HIM..WHAT A DISSAPOINTMENT, HE SEEMS TO BE AFRAID TO GET CLOSE OF THE HOOP..HE EITHER DOES FADE AWAY JUMPERS IF HE'S INSIDE OR HE SHOOTS 3'S. MAN HAS ANY1 SEEN HIM DRIVE AND DUNK THE BALL. I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM HUSTLE AT ALL EITHER. I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT WE ALL EXPECTED HIM TO BE A DYNAMIC PLAYER BUT WE RECIEVED NOTHING LIKE THAT. HE EVEN GETS CAUGHT WITH DRUG POSSESSION. DAMN. IF I WAS HIM, I'D B HITTING THE GYM AND PRACTICING RATHER THAN ROLLING BLUNTS AND SMOKING IT. I PICK NACHBAR OVER HIM LOL. WHY?? BECAUSE AT LEAST HE HAS MOTIVATION TO SUCCEED! I PICK BADIANE OVER HIM TOO. BUT HEY IT'S NOT THAT BAD THOUGH,, WE GOT YAO..OUR SAVIOUR
