1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Updated 5 year outlook

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snake Diggit, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    5,479
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    I am sure Angels ownership would not have been too heartbroken over Pujols suffering a career ending injury 3 seasons ago. Same for the Tigers and Cabrera.
     
  2. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    5,479
    Likes Received:
    3,864
    Taking a quick look, the Phillies, Reds, and Mets seem to be the best fits for a Correa trade heading into the offseason. Some hypothetical trades:
    To the Phillies for Bryson Stott, Mickey Moniak, and Casey Martin
    To the Mets for Andres Gimenez
    To the Reds for Jonathan India, Mike Siani, and Tyler Callihan
     
  3. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    19,111
    Likes Received:
    7,434
    It may be a good idea to let go of Greinke and JV to try and keep Springer and Correa.

    I have no idea if that’s even remotely possible, but with the young pitching this team has, it seems like the best course of action moving forward.
     
  4. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    27,544
    Likes Received:
    11,980
    I think Correa has every intention of testing free agency. No way he's going to sit through a rebuild as he's entering the prime of his career.
     
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    Is that a joke? Not sure what happened, but it looks like he had what should have been a career ending injury 3 years ago prior to 2017 season (or he just stopped caring at that point). Huge power drop while the ball was hitting up jamba juice like a hipster. He's just got a guaranteed contract and has no reason to end his career. As he keeps coming out because he gets paid for coming to park...Angels can't collect insurance.
     
  6. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53,557
    Likes Received:
    38,572
    Or he got old, one could say he looks older than his stated age.
     
  7. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    Old people get hurt. Some may even say people that look older than their stated age get hurt more. Typically, aging does not drop a player's fWAR by 3 in a single season followed by 3 seasons of increasing power (ISO).
     
    raining threes likes this.
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    66,514
    Likes Received:
    5,429
    It seems to me this all came crashing down really quickly...
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    36,994
    Likes Received:
    7,623
    I think that's the point - if Pujols had suffered a career-ending injury, they'd have been able to get all that money back (if they insured him). If he did have some kind of injury and the options were to try to rehab it or do some kind of major surgery that knocks him out for a year or two, it seems like an incentive for the team to push the latter option.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  10. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    I wish the Nationals management shared this sentiment and would have torn down their team after a worse 52-game start last season.

    The Astros being a super team is probably over 2 years early. I don't see a team in the AL right now that I would call a super team as they can't even match the Astros 2019 162-game pace over a 50-game stretch. While averaging 2/3s of their projected pitching staff on the IL for the season....the Astros are 26-26. Astros should be fun to watch in 2021 and probably 2022. Sometime after 2021 (could be 2022 could be 2025), Astros will probably make the decision to rebuild or reload. I'm hoping the Astros don't choose the McLane and Rangers path of running the team into the ground on hope alone.
     
  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    A team can only collect insurance if a player is unable to play in most circumstances. Pujols probably had something like a hamate injury that robs a player of power for a season or 2 that there isn't a surgery that can restore it sooner, but not cause player to be unable to play. Pujols had every motivation to show up to the ball park even if he could not play well.
     
  12. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    5,479
    Likes Received:
    3,864

    Ummm, yeah, that’s the problem. Sort of the defining characteristic of a “career-ending injury” is that it...uhhh...ends the player’s career.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    36,994
    Likes Received:
    7,623
    You seem to be missing the point that Snake Diggit was talking about a hypothetical injury that actually ended his career, not whatever secret injury you're referring to.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    27,544
    Likes Received:
    11,980
    Losing Verlander and Cole was a devastating blow that nobody could overcome. I predicted our window would close after 2019 but the suddenness of it is jarring.
     
  15. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    Honestly, I thought it would be worse. We have been extremely lucky in how well some of the young guys stepped up. Imagine how many holes the roster would have if Tucker, Framber, Javier, Urquidy, Paredes, and Taylor all sucked?Add that many holes to the free agents we do have and we would be in a forced rebuild. That is 6 roster spots next year at around league minimum salaries. So now we need to figure out 2 outfield spots, first base, a better backup catcher, and some bullpen help. With Reddick, Springer, Brantley, Gurriel, Osuna, Peacock, Devenski, and Biagini all either free agents or likely to be non-tendered the Astros have 75 million coming off the books. Even if they reduce the payroll they have money to field a quality team. I'm okay with a rotation of Greinke, Framber, McCullers, Urquidy, and Javier with Whitley, Abreu, Garcia, and Pruitt able to slide in for injuries or bad performances. My biggest disappointment has been Abraham Toro.
     
  16. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    And you are missing the point that his guaranteed contract is only thing keeping him in majors despite being an above average hitter in 2016 (i.e., he isn't on the field for merit right now and went from being an overpaid player to shouldn't be on the field over one offseason).

    A secret injury makes more sense than he rapidly showed the effects of aging in 2017, but slowly de-aged in 2018 and 2019 that you seem to be implying by suggesting he didn't get hurt.
     
    #256 Joe Joe, Sep 20, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  17. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    Looking through Pujols's injury history....guess who had offseason foot surgery before the 2017 season?
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    36,994
    Likes Received:
    7,623
    That has nothing to do with anything. This is the conversation:

    You had no idea that Snake Diggit was talking about a hypothetical injury that would have allowed the Angels to collect insurance if Pujols had a career ending injury, and now you just seem to be doubling and tripling down on your weird, irrelevant tangent.
     
    LonghornFan and Snake Diggit like this.
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,756
    Likes Received:
    6,323
    If they honestly decide not to try and resign “any” of their upcoming free agents... and Altuve is done... and Bregman is no longer an MVP... and Alvarez never comes back... and Tucker doesn’t improve from an already promising start...

    then the window may be closing? I think those are a lot of if’s. It’s honestly not as bad as a lot here are concerned over... and there are no other AL teams on the cusp, even the ones that have tanked longer than the Astros did from 2012-2014.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    17,495
    Likes Received:
    5,412
    This is a outright lie. I was unsure whether Snake was saying hypothetical injury (though I thought this was likely) or if it was a joke (hence my comment is this a joke?) because Pujols had a severe decrease in performance (that I think was an injury) at about the time frame Snake suggested that should have ended his career if playing time was based on merit alone despite being playable (though vastly overpaid) the year before.

    From my perspective, you are the one doubling down.

    Do you acknowledge that Pujols had a drastic decline in performance starting at about the time of Snake was referring?

    How many players are allowed to keep playing at the MLB level with as bad as Pujols was in 2017?
     
    #260 Joe Joe, Sep 20, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now